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[Opinion] Possible rotation changes that may improve the team

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by chenjy9, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    So after re-watching some the games since Hayes went down and AB joined him for his 2nd trip down injury lane, I gave a lot of thought of what I would do if I was RA. Since we don't know when and how a trade will go down, the only known factors are the players we have at hand. This would be my game plan if I was the head coach.

    Starting Lineup (primarily in 1st and 2nd quarter):

    PG Kyle Lowry - With Brooks hobbled and Ish and Lee as are alternatives, this is a no brainer. Ish is good at pushing the fast break, but still plays out of control a lot and fails to back off and slow down into a half court set when the opposing D contracts.

    SG Kevin Martin - Say what you want about his typical disappearing act in the 4th, no one can deny he is a force to be reckoned with for the first 3 quarters, especially in the foul category. With a pass oriented PG, Martin will see plenty of shooting opportunities coming off screens and fast breaks. Lowry and Batter can both help compensate for his poor D.

    SF Shane Battier - He is still solid from the corner, decent at the post, and a great team defender. I would like to see him down in the post more, where techniques can somewhat compensate for his complete lack of athleticism.

    PF Luis Scola - Yes he sucks defensively, but with Brooks out, he is the undeniable 2nd option for the Rockets. Between him and Hill, I will take Scola at PF for now. He is normally good for a double double and it's hard to pass that up.

    C Patrick Patterson - Yes I am picking 2Pat over Hill. No I am not crazy or a Hill hater. 2Pat has shown a much stronger grasp for proper defensive rotations and has a solid mid range shot. He is also a lot more disciplined than Hill and has a much lower chance of losing it. Like Hayes, he may not be the tallest guy, but he is definitely our strongest right now and should be able to hang with players down in the post.

    Secondary Unit (Provides relief for our starters in the first 2 quarters):

    PG Ishmael Smith - Yes he can be a bit out of control at times, but I would much rather he run the point than Lee, especially against the typically weaker bench players.

    SG Courtney Lee - Great slasher, good shooter, and great defender. This guy ran well with Ish and should continue to do well as long as he does not pull an Ariza or Artest. His respectable outside shot also balances Ish's lack of one.

    SF Terrance Williams - At this time, I say screw Bud as a major role player. Yes he is shooting better, but for me, that makes him situational at best until he figures out what defense means. With Terrance Williams, we can at least keep an up temp game while not worrying too much about D.

    PF Jordan Hill - For lack of better options, I would put in Hill with two simple directives: dunk as much as possible on one end and contest every shot in the post on the other end. If he fails to give it his all with those two simple instructions, sub him in for Jeffries.

    C Brad Miller - There is actually a lot of thought that goes into this. With Smith, Lee, and Williams in the starting lineup, our fast break game is definitely going to pickup a few notches. What this means is that the opposing D is going to be scrambling to keep up. If they do catch up, they will have contracted into the paint in order deflect penetration. Guess what that will leave when Miller's slow ass comes ambling to the perimeter or high post with the D most likely out of position or mismatched? I am quite willing to trust Miller with uncontested shots.

    Third Quarter Lineup (typically the quarter before the refs started swallowing the whistles):

    PG Kyle Lowry - Lowry will need to be super aggressive here in pushing the break to try not only increases the chances of fouls, but to set the tone of the 2nd half. He also needs to be smart about it though and save his strength going into the 4th. This is a very critical quarter for him and the Rockets.

    SG Terrance Williams - Terrance Williams has to guard the best perimeter here and keep him from going off. We also need Courtney to be constantly looking for cuts on the other end to keep pressure on the D and force fouls by catching defenders out of position around the rim.

    SF Kevin Martin - Yes he doesn't have enough weight and yes he is going to get bullied in the paint. The whole point here is to lure opposing SF into the paint. The key here is that since Martin cannot defend them no matter what, at least keep it within the perimeter so the D can rotate over faster.

    PF Jared Jeffries - Jeffries would be a good fit here and would gladly agree to some PT as long as he is willing to follow to simple directives as well; dunk on every open look around the rim or get pulled out and try to rotate over and try to get charges on the other end through defensive rotations. The goal here on D is when the opposing SF tries to post up and bump through Martin, Jeffries can rotate over to challenge the shot with his length or take a charge.

    C Jordan Hill - His job here is still the same. Dunk and contest shots. With Jeffries rotating or sagging off to help Martin, that will leave the rim vulnerable. Hill seems to pretty good at blocking and this would be a good chance to see if he grows or folds. It is a gamble, but it could pay off.

    Situational/Conditional: Battier and Lee will spell relief for Williams and Martin here as much as possible with Lee taking the role of best defender and constant slasher and Battier corner shooter and traffic director. Hopefully Lee can limit the best perimeter player and Battier can at least hit the open shots.

    Fourth Quarter Closing Lineup:

    PG Terrance Williams
    SG Courtney Lee
    SF Kevin Martin
    PF Shane Battier
    C Patrick Patterson

    There is good reason for this lineup. The 4th is typically where the star or scorer of each team goes off as opposing D's clamp down. There should be good enough decision making and playmaking between Lee and Williams. Now some of you may wonder why I don't have Lowry or Scola to close the 4th. The reason is that Lowry's playing style of barreling into the paint loses its effectiveness in the 4th and Scola cannot be counted on to rotate fast enough to guard against pick and rolls. Battier will be able to rotate off fast enough to prevent penetration most of the time and Patrick Patterson can slide over to cut off passes to bigs inside. The key to this lineup however is with Lee and Williams consistently aiming for cuts and slashes to pull the D inwards as Battier, Martin, and Patterson drift outwards for easier midrange and perimeter shots. With our current personnel, there is absolutely no way for us to beat them inside. Therefore, we must draw them outside and leave the inside for slashing guerrilla warfare.

    What do you guys think?
     
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  2. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    Actually, Scola is excellent at pick and roll defense. It's everything else he struggles at.

    No fan has enough information to make informed decisions. You're basing your analysis, which is mostly sound, based on a few minutes of game footage, while coaches base their decisions on hours upon hours of film and personal interaction. Fans simply do not have enough information to speculate on game plans.

    Even my own clamors for certain players to play carry with them the unspoken caveat that I know less than the professionals who are paid very well to make those decisions and they very well may have access to information that makes my perspective invalid.
     
  3. MourningWood

    MourningWood Contributing Member

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    Shane Battier at PF in the 4th quarter/closing unit?

    He would be tossed around like a tin can in a tornado. Pau Gasol would rip his little Duke blue heart out, and defecate all over his corpse. KG would savagely dismantle the consummate professional, and eat his flesh in the Garden. Go ahead and schedule Shane's appointment with the firing squad, because Mr. Intangibles would get cooked at PF down the stretch.

    On the other hand, the Lee/T-Will tandem is SICK. Young, uber-athletic, committed at both ends of the floor... didn't pan out in Jersey, but I'm eager to see them run the break with Ish.
     
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  4. trugoy

    trugoy Member

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    If we were a more experienced team with less holes, than Lee's 4th quarter chocking would draw more attention, seriously the guy continously makes mental mistakes in the 4th. I would rather have Lowry than Lee in the 4th.

    Also Terrence Williams is being overrated, if he got more time, you'll start to see the bone-headed decision making more and more. He's got potential but he needs more seasoning.

    You do realise that Williams/Lee is the backcourt that got NJ 12 wins last season.
     
  5. Prince

    Prince Member

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    well if they basically rotated defensively last night they would have stopped that freaking 13-0 run by the Blazers :mad:
     
  6. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Good thread. This is my take on it:


    Starters
    1.Lowry
    2.KM
    3.Battier
    4.Scola
    5.Patpat

    Top 4 subs:
    1. Brooks
    2. Lee
    3. Hill
    4. Hayes

    Reserves (in case any of the subs or starters are playing like crap)
    1. T-will
    2. Miller
    3. C-bud

    This would be how I will sort out the pecking order. Hayes starting is a short-term fix, PP can surpass him with some experience under his belt. Battier is more of a hot/cold player right now, if he comes in the game ice-cold I'm cutting his minutes and putting T-will in the game. From what I can see, a combination of Hayes and Hill would be pretty good defensively, Hill can guard the paint and Hayes can be the guy who rotates and covers for Hill's lapse of judments.

    Oh yeah one last thing: I WOULD NEVER SUB IN MORE THAN 2 PLAYERS AT A TIME. It destroys whatever chemistry or momentum on the court when you put in more than 2 guys who have been sitting on their ass the past couple of minutes.
     
  7. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    This may develop in the future and I think TWill was brought in to possibly play the point, but it's not gonna happen today or tomorrow.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I think you need to choose a direction first, and then a lineup...win now, or develop, until that is solved.....well, it is just sort of wasting time.

    DD
     
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  9. jevon3012

    jevon3012 Member

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    I love Scola but his problem is that he can't guard anyone. Now you want to put a 6'9 PF next to him at C? Teams will score 50+ points in the paint.
     
  10. phantoman

    phantoman Contributing Member

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    I agree, i posted the same line up in a diff thread. it would make more sense when offense and Defense is spread out evenly. someone asked me the question awhere is Bud, but i think bud is too much of a Defensive liability right now.
     
  11. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    The whole point is for opposing PF's to try to take on Battier in the low post. Battier has good enough defensive techniques and help defense to know when to sag off to help with penetration as well as to stay behind or in front of opposing PF's and try to "herd" them to spots where 2Pat or Hill can come in and try to help. 2Pat will have a huge responsibility to play smart D here and defend more by denying passing lanes inside once he begins to rotate over and his build should allow him to give as good as he gets down low.

    Lee makes a lot of dumb mistakes, I realize that. In the 4th though, especially the closing minutes, most teams contract to suffocating half court D. We need slashers that can shoot to force the D apart as well as draw opposing interior D out. Our interior presence cannot guard anyone and often cannot score as well. The easiest solution is to make the inside game more importance.

    As far as T-Will and Lee sucking it up in Nets, have you ever thought that maybe the Nets are just a bad team? Everyone that goes to the Nets sucked it up. Lee sucked it up last year and look how much better he is doing this year. Harris is just not a good team player or PG.

    Given that realistic playoffs success appears to be more and more out of the question, my direction is win as much as we can while developing our assets.

    Our 6'6 PF seemed to do OK at center. Centers now suck in terms of actual skill level and rely on size or athleticism to succeed. Like Hayes, 2Pat is built like a tank and has actually played the center position before in college and did very well. He is a solid rebounder, excellent defensive rotator and helper, and has a solid mid ranged jump shot. If you can't counter with height, you compensate with technique and intelligence.
     
  12. nebula955

    nebula955 Member

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    Battier at PF is bad... he's a great perimeter defender, but from the little amount of times I've seen him get posted up, he definitely struggles there. It definitely wouldn't work unless you're playing like new york or indiana.
     
  13. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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    I would love Twills energy in the 4th cutting into the paint, and opening up a shot for Kmart. We saw him getting Lee looks yesterday. Difference is Kmart will make them.
     
  14. _RTM_

    _RTM_ Member

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    I think that healthy Brooks should start, but right now I like only one idea in this thread: surrounding Kevin Martin with great defenders in a clutch. But it would never happen Opponent would just trap him everytime he catches the ball and we won't have any scorers at the same time, and he's not a good passer, so... bad decisions are guaranteed. It's even worse than now.
     
  15. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    Here is the thing though... I WANT him to get posted on. This makes it easier for 2Pat or Hill to get into place for a block, double, or rotation coverage.
     
  16. _RTM_

    _RTM_ Member

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    You can surrond T-Mac type of guy with good defenders, cause those players can find teammates in trappin circumstances but it would not work with Kevin Martin.
     
  17. _RTM_

    _RTM_ Member

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    It won't work even with Kevin Durant :grin:
     
  18. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    I think you have the wrong idea here. It's probably my fault since I never touched base on it. The entire point is to have Battier, T-Will, and Lee handle the ball with T-Will and Lee attacking seems to keep the D on the toes while Martin looks for curls off screens or gets open for shots. I am envisioning something very similar to the 4th quarter offense of the old Pacers who DID base their entire offense off a sharpshooter known as Reggie Miller. Miller wasn't a great ball handler either, but excelled because the entire team O was geared towards opening and spacing the floor for him to let loose. Also, if they double him to deny the ball, I feel pretty comfortable having the rest of the players shoot open shots. Double team means someone else is open. All of our players only have problems shooting when off balanced. They are all at least decent shooters when set.
     
  19. _RTM_

    _RTM_ Member

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    And please, stop trying to overrate Patrick Patterson. He's a rookie, he didn't show a lot of confidence in preseason, he didn't play in the NBA for the first two month' so he would dissappear and he would make mistakes and you can't predict when it gonna happen. It's costly for sure, especially in the clutch or just in tough in-game stretches
     
  20. rwienert

    rwienert Contributing Member

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    This isn't meant to desecrate Battier, but there's no way he's capable of guarding most of the 4's in this league. He's not tall enough, strong enough, or athletic enough to stop them from scoring. No amount of intangibles or basketball IQ or going to compensate for his lack of physical ability. Even a few years ago, when Battier was at his "peak" as a Rocket, JVG tried him out at PF early in the season. The result: Carlos Boozer completely destroyed him, and the experiment was over before the game was.

    He's also not a very strong post up player. Unless there is a huge mismatch in terms of size, he needs to stay out of the low post. He doesn't finish well, and doesn't seal his man off effectively enough to even get the ball in position. Scola, Hill, and probably even Patterson are much more efficient down there, so there's no reason to try and post up Battier.

    Unfortunately, Shane is best suited for standing in the corner and waiting for someone else to create a shot for him. I think the T-Will love is currently a little overblown. He seems a little reckless and turnover prone (but has gotten away with it thus far). But at least T-Will is an active participant in the offense that makes his defender do something other than wait for a chance to offer help on the ball. Having someone like him who is actually a threat to make a play would likely change the way that opposing teams would think about defending the Rockets.

    At this point, Battier's contributions are pretty limited, and the occasional bright spots on defense are erased by his inability to do much of anything on the offensive end. With T-Will showing flashes of brilliance and Budinger seeming to knock down shots consistently, I think it might be time to consider a major change in the rotation that involves Shane getting limited minutes. I'd be in favor of having more tangible production out of the three spot. That's something the team hasn't gotten in a few years.
     
    #20 rwienert, Jan 6, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
    1 person likes this.

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