Open skies treaty

We weren't sending in planes to the areas that mattered because they wouldn't let us. Do you really think the administration didn't talk to Russia about this and just cut it off? This has been talked about since 2018. Hopefully, Russia gets the message and it can be negotiated and put back in place. Bottom line though is if they can't fly over our stuff and we can't fly over theirs we have the better satellite equipment which gives us an advantage.

Here is quote proving they were negotiating..

“It’s at an impasse, but we’re having discussions. There are some things that Russia needs to do to get back into compliance with that,” Thompson said at the time. “We’re having those discussions, they’re ongoing. So that’s the most important part, that the dialogue is occurring and to get them back in compliance. And then we’ll move forward.”

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2018/09/14/us-russia-remain-at-impasse-over-nuclear-treaty-flights/

We also aren't just using satellites. The Russians shot down one of our drones in Libya and refused to return it. You can't just keep bending over.

 

So sanction them. What does leaving the treaty help towards getting them to comply? Russia is still part of the treaty with the other countries which means they can still do flyovers...us leaving means they can still accomplish their flyovers while we can’t. How does us leaving the treaty hurt them?

As far as drones, leaving the treaty means that Russia can shoot down any drones we send there. If they start doing that, and they probably will, that probably exceeds the cost of jet fuel that you were claiming we’d save...not to mention the costs of fuel for the drones to fly in as well.

Again, this is where sanctions come in and denying Russia the ability to make their own flights would be much more effective. Us leaving makes no sense when it has no effect on the other side.

 

I bet he doesn’t care one way or the other about the treaty. He is just flooding the news channels to divert from his many failures.

 

Metaphorical and literal dams be breaking from his **** floods.

 

He knows people have short attention spans and will only focus on negative news.

Hence why his play book to get re-elected is about China the Evil Empire...instead about making USA a leader again in all aspects of the world. People just want to read about how bad someone else is..it draws people in. People can relate to hate and other people's misfortunes.

For any of the older folks who had to go through the cold war and now Trump with a flip of the switch, is leaving treaties behind. I guess the next president can deal with next great Cuban Crisis caused by Trump alienating Allies. Anyway Trump has already increased his Family wealth by 100x in the last 3 years.....his whole family works for the government.

Yet we face a very good possibility he will win again because majority of the trump supporters believe he is making their lives better.

Trump has also achieved his goal, he will go down as the most talked about President (good or bad) until we have a next president who either does something amazing or is crazy. Many of us, will never forget Trump as being the President and even when he is no longer President, he will be on some talk show to remind us how great he is or his ability to leave out facts.

 

Thanks for sharing this article. Sounds like some Republicans don't like the treaty and will probably be okay with Trump pulling out (that's what she said). It still doesn't make sense for me.

I found this quote interesting:

The Pentagon maintains the aircraft are needed to ensure overwatch of Russia’s military capabilities, with Defense Secretary Jim Mattis writing to Sen. Deb Fischer, R-Neb., that the treaty is an “important mechanism,” but that the U.S. could only complete 64 percent of its flights in 2017.

Considering that General Mathis thinks it's a good idea for the treaty to stay in place, it doesn't seem to me like withdrawing is the smartest decision, even if there have been some struggles to properly implement it at times.

What are the advantages of withdrawing?

 

My opinion is that the idea behind withdrawing is to change the status quo and bring the Russians to the table. We would like and equal and fair system where both countries get the same rules for these flights. Russia was preventing that from happening. They slapped restrictions on our flights and then we reciprocated. We tried to negotiate but they weren't having any of it. This isn't just about the flights. It is an extension of Russia protesting the sanctions we have put on them for the Ukraine invasion, election interference, using chemical weapons on UK soil, illegal trade with N Korea, etc, etc. This was retaliation on their part. So if they aren't going to allow us the flights in the areas we want and we are putting restrictions on their flights, why continue to maintain this facade of a working program in place?

Trump today already said they weren't adhering to the agreement, but there is a very good chance we will work out a new agreement or put that one back together. He's trying to negotiate. This is his style. I don't love it but that is what he is doing. Watch, Russians will ask for sanctions to be lifted.

 

Are you really saying the government pays 100x more than what Trumps family could make in the private sector? Or are you just making numbers up?

 

not defending his take or math, at all, but I don’t think anyone believes Trump family Inc. is enriching themselves from direct federal pay. Lots of indirects, people suggest and even document in these emoluments cases.

As to what he could make in private sector, who knows. Would love to see some tax returns and know why so many banks refused to loan him cheddar.

 

Trump has donated his salary and if I recall correctly that Jared Kushner and Ivanka aren't taking a salary.

That's a nice gesture and yes they aren't making money directly. That none of those people have separate themselves from their businesses the salary they could've made is likely small compared to what they are making from their private businesses. We know that Kushner is still actively involved in his family business even as he is supposed to be working for the US. Trump himself while no longer running the day to day of Trump Organization hasn't separated himself or even put his holdings in a blind trust. We know that he continues to push Trump properties, he patronizes Trump properties, and has directed government resources to Trump properties. Per some recent reports it is likely Trump properties are overcharging the Secret Service. Also up until this current crisis the Trump hotel in DC was doing very good business with a lot of business coming from foreign interests, particularly Saudi interests.

 

Has there been a president in recent history that has not made millions off of being President? The trouble is each have such a rabid base that they would be stupid not to profit off of their experience. Sometimes its hard to prove corruption.

"Thank you Mr President, for passing legislation that favored my business while you were in office. As a reward, come speak at our corporate event and we will pay you $500k each time we invite you out"

 

Are you comparing past presidents getting paid for speeches or book deals after leaving the office with the current presidency? Seriously?

 

It was at my graduation ceremony at TAMU in May of '89 that then President George H. W. Bush revisited the "Open Skies" treaty that came into being in 1992. Just my small connection to this.

Continue on with the Trump bashing.

 

Which country is most likely to benefit from the end of this treaty?

Let's answer that by asking - which country is more likely to covertly build up troops to invade a neighboring state?

 

Those Germans are at it again!!!

 

Well...... considering the Bay of Bigs, Panama, Grenada, Haiti, and the most recent attempted "coup" in Venezuela, I will say it is a coin toss.