old info, semi-new thought

70% sure that GS is over the cap and the exception can't be used in sign and trades.

 

Marc Jackson would be a nice pick up if the Rox trade Walt Williams for White.then they should be ok for the season even if Cato don't come thru. Golden State is over the cap big time

 

i agree, if we are willing to sign TMo, who is totally unproven, and coming off of a bad year to a position that we are stacked in, as a favor to Stevie... Then we should do all we can to sign a player coming off what could have been a rookie of the year performance, to what is our weakest position, as a favor to Cuttino. Or as a favor to me, and all of you.

Guys I'd be willing to part with to sign Marc Jackson.............in order of who I'd like to see go first (in regard to what the rox need, disregarding contract stuff)

first offer Walt Williams,
then maybe Dan Langhi,
...Kenny Thomas,
...Jason Collier,
...Kelvin Cato,
...Moochie.
why is Cato so low? Because he is a seven footer, and for some reason latey I've decided to bet on the Taurus. If Cato AND Jackson can live up to their potentials, then we have a damn solid team that can challenge anyone in a seven game series. Collier, no matter how hard he tries can never be what Cato can be if he tries just a little bit more. But in case the taurus does break down Again, I WANT MARC JACKSON.

 

Please, people. You make it sound like we traded a 1st round pick for Jack Haley, and all we will be getting out of the guy is a one man Francis cheering team. We may have overpayed a little to get Morris (still remains to be seen), but certainly it was not <b>solely</b> done for the sake of Francis! Francis gave TRock his endorsement, that was about it. As was reported by someone on this BBS, Morris had an outstanding workout with the Rockets individually. They know he can play, and they know he can contribute, if not now then in the not too distant future.

Secondly, as a couple have said already, GS cannot sign and trade Jackson. They are over the cap, and all they have to sign Jackson is an exception. You cannot sign and trade someone using the exception (not absolutely positive about this, but pretty sure). That means all we can do is sign Jackson outright. And it is pretty evident from previous CD quotes that the Rockets have made a pitch to Jackson, but he simply does not see himself in the price range that the Rockets do.

Personally, I am glad. I don't think Jackson is the answer to our center woes, and overpaying him for a couple years <b>certainly</b> won't make the situation any better.

 

Raven Lunatic is correct.

Morris is a big time talent. It's not like he's some 6'5'' shooting guard with no jumpshot. Morris is the type of player that you can wreak havoc on defense, especially in a zone. He's 6'9'' with long arms, and a ton of quickness. He can hit open 3 point shots. It's an even greater bonus that he'll have instant chemistry with Steve.

On the Marc Jackson issue-I'm still unclear on his status. He cannot be signed and traded with the MCE, and GS doesn't have cap space. I'm not sure on his Bird Rights status. I've seen it mentioned somewhere, that in the hearing where they determined Jackson's free agent rights (restricted), that they also granted GS Early-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent Rights (aka Early Bird). This wouldn't make sense, since Jackson has only played one year

Now that Jackson's price has gone down, I wouldn't mind taking a gamble with a 3 year deal at a moderate price (3 mill). We won't have the cap space anyway.

Before anyone asks, we could offer before Jackson a ~1.3 mill base before Moochie is signed, or a ~2 mill base if Moochie is renounce/leaves.

 

Still, you're never going to come out ahead in the long-term by trading 1st rounders for 2nd round "gems." Yes, some players are undervalued. But far more often than not, players fall because they should. I think Rudy's good at identifying 2nd round steals... Mobley and others support this. But even he has a pretty poor batting average for getting 2nd rounders to permanently stick. I think that his past success is making him too arrogant.

It's possible that Morris will work out. But that still isn't a deal that you want to make percentage-wise.

 

Percentage-wise, this is a little different than just choosing Morris in the 2nd round. I know that the percentage of 2nd round gems is not very good. And you may be right, Rudy might be letting his 2nd round past success get to his head. But how many times in the past has Rudy/Rockets brass traded a late 1st round pick for a 2nd round player? I can't recall it happening off the top of my head. To me, that indicates further confidence from Rudy that Morris will contribute. Morris might not work out, but I just didn't like the way people were acting as if the Morris deal was made simply to please Steve Francis. That is merely a fringe benefit.

Edit: In thinking back, there are other reasons to trade a 1st round pick for a 2nd. The 2nd round picks have no guaranteed contract. If, for whatever reason, it had become apparent that Morris would not work out, they would lose no cap space in signing him.

 

Here's the rule addressing the sign & trade of Jackson, using the mid-level exception from Larry Coon's FAQ:

http://www.members.home.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

69. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?
Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a special rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

A sign-and-trade deal can be made even with players that have been renounced. However, a sign-and-trade deal cannot be made when the player was signed using the Mid-Level, $1 Million or Disabled Player exception. Sign-and-trade deals are only allowed if the contract is for three years or longer.

One complication with sign-and-trade deals is that the signed player can immediately become a BYC player (see question number 66 for more information on BYC), so it's the player's BYC value that must be used when determining whether the trade is allowed.

See question number 73 for more information on how long a team must wait after signing a contract before they can trade a player.

 

What we Can do, as popeye has said, is trade someone to GS for someone they want to get rid of (mookie, sura) with the promise that they will not match our offer to Jackson.

 

Give GS Cato + Williams for Jackson + Blaylock