if we are comparing Rick Smith to other GMs, you have to throw out the Russell Wilson/Dak picks that everyone passed on other than that, Derek Carr and maybe Jimmy G are the only QBs you can say Smith should have taken when they were available (and who knows what was going on behind the scenes with Carr) edit: here's a good compilation of awful QBs available to Rick Smith that he fortunately passed on
Simple answer: Yes, I do think he has been bad at evaluating QB talent. Derek Carr and Jimmy G You make a good case and point, but aren't showing the whole picture. Could he have traded up any of those years? Should he have done a better job of getting us a free agent QB all those years if he didn't think the draft was worthy of choices? Will he continue to judge talent at the QB position in a mediocre way? Is he the best GM you could hope for? Has he done a stellar job of evaluating quarterbacks worthy of leading our team?
Just because he didn't draft good quarterbacks does not mean he did not evaluate them properly, and is not a good QB evaluator. Same goes with anyone in our front office. It just means that he needs to be more aggressive and commit to going out and actually getting his guy...If that's what he wants to do. How on Earth can you prove that he has done a mediocre job of evaluating quarterbacks? Lol. That must be the biggest crock of stupid as far as fan myths go. (Not directed at you, Deb, just fans in general)
Derek Carr is really the only QB on that whole list I wish we hadn't passed on but with his namesake the pressure and ridicule he would have endured in Houston might have been too much for a 23 yr old.
OK, maybe I didn't word that well. Look, Rick was out there with Bill every year in training camp. Those two were the ones who decided who was good enough, who wasn't, and who was our best option at free agent. It just seems like they both settled for mediocre, unless they knew all along Savage was great, and just wanted to help out some other free agents while they developed him longer. I'm being sarcastic because I wanted to believe in Savage and they never did. Now they want to believe in him and I am over it. I just feel like Rick screwed up somewhere along the way.
Spoiler: McShays tiered final draft rankings As the 2017 NFL draft draws closer, it's time to finalize our draft tier rankings, which uses our grades to separate prospects into segments. This is helpful when comparing players who are close to each other in the rankings. It also helps in predicting where players will come off the board during the first three rounds of the draft. Here's the final version of our 2017 draft tiers, covering players with first-, second- and third-round grades (in parentheses next to each player's name). If you want to read our finalized reports for a player, click on the link tied to his name. *Underclassmen are noted with an asterisk. Tier 1 The elite class of the 2017 NFL draft. These players should be starters from Day 1 and project as perennial Pro Bowl players. 2017: 1 player | 2016: 0 players Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M* (Grade: 95) Garrett's production, tape and athletic upside put him on a different level compared to his peers. He's one of the elite pass-rushing prospects of the past decade and should be an easy choice for the Cleveland Browns with the No. 1 overall pick. EDITOR'S PICKS McShay's biggest draft needs for every NFL team Which holes will each team be trying to fill during the 2017 NFL draft? Todd McShay takes a close look at where all 32 franchises still needs to improve. Kiper vs. McShay: Three-round head-to-head mock draft Our two NFL draft gurus traded off picks for three rounds, making the selections as if they were running each of the 32 teams. Kiper and McShay's favorite player comps: Whom does Watson resemble? You want comps? We've got comps! Mel Kiper and Todd McShay find the NFL players who are most similar to eight top 2017 draft prospects. Tier 2 A notch below the elite class but still worthy of top-20 picks in most drafts. These picks are expected to be plug-and-play starters. 2017: 10 players | 2016: 8 players Jamal Adams, S, LSU* (94) Solomon Thomas, DT, Stanford* (94) Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU* (93) Jonathan Allen, DT, Alabama (93) Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State* (92) O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama (92) Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State* (92) Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama (92) Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford* (92) Haason Reddick, ILB, Temple (92) Adams is a special player. He has the toughness to play near the line of scrimmage and the athleticism to cover wide receivers and tight ends in space. He's a more complete prospect than Hooker -- and he has a cleaner bill of health, with Hooker coming off multiple offseason surgeries. Howard is my highest-ranked tight end since I had Vernon Davis No. 6 overall in 2006. The Alabama product reminds me of Greg Olsen; they have very similar measurables, plus both bring value as big-play threats and blockers. Tier 3 These players carry late first-round grades. 2017: 13 players | 2016: 14 players Mike Williams, WR, Clemson* (91) Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee* (91) David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.)* (91) Forrest Lamp, OG, Western Kentucky (90) Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State* (90) Charles Harris, OLB, Missouri* (90) Gareon Conley, CB, Ohio State* (90) Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan (90) Garett Bolles, OT, Utah* (90) John Ross, WR, Washington* (90) Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama* (90) Evan Engram, TE, Mississippi (90) Kevin King, CB, Washington (90) In the previous 10 drafts, my highest-rated offensive lineman was ranked, on average, fourth overall. The 2017 class is especially weak in that regard, with Lamp at No. 15 being the best O-lineman on my board. McCaffrey's rare versatility -- he can run between the tackles, catch passes in the slot and contribute as a return specialist -- helped bump him up to Tier 2, while Cook stock has been affected by character/durability concerns. Tier 4 Would rather not reach for these prospects late in the first round, but they're good value picks in the first half of Round 2. 2017: 22 players | 2016: 16 players Marlon Humphrey, CB, Alabama* (89) Takkarist McKinley, DE, UCLA (89) Tyus Bowser, OLB, Houston (89) Jarrad Davis, ILB, Florida (89) Mitchell Trubisky, QB, North Carolina* (89) Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU (89) Adoree' Jackson, CB, Southern California* (89) Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson* (88) Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida* (88) Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin* (88) Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State* (88) Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan (87) Marcus Maye, S, Florida (87) T.J. Watt, OLB, Wisconsin* (87) Jourdan Lewis, CB, Michigan (87) Zay Jones, WR, East Carolina (87) Curtis Samuel, WR, Ohio State* (86) Budda Baker, S, Washington* (86) Josh Jones, S, NC State* (86) Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma* (85) Obi Melifonwu, S, Connecticut (85) Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan* (85) That's right: The top-rated QB on my board (Trubisky) does not carry a first-round grade. Both he and Watson have the tools and mental makeup to eventually grow into good NFL starters, but neither are ready to start from Day 1. This tier is where the depth of the defensive back group starts to show: Fifteen of my top 46 players are cornerbacks or safeties. Good DBs will be available deep into Day 2. Tier 5 These players are middle- or late-second-round prospects. 2017: 15 players | 2016: 20 players Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech* (84) Chidobe Awuzie, CB, Colorado (83) Dion Dawkins, OG, Temple (83) DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame* (83) JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR, Southern California* (83) Marcus Williams, S, Utah* (83) Zach Cunningham, ILB, Vanderbilt* (82) Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee* (82) Caleb Brantley, DT, Florida* (81) Jordan Willis, DE, Kansas State (81) Ryan Anderson, OLB, Alabama (81) Chris Wormley, DT, Michigan (80) Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana (80) Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland* (80) Tim Williams, OLB, Alabama (80) It's looking like Mahomes will be a first-round pick, despite carrying a mid-second-round grade. That's quarterbacks for ya. Smith-Schuster is a bit of a forgotten man in this wide receiver class, but I love his competitiveness and he'd be a good fit in a West-coast system because of his ability to make plays after the catch. This is around the spot on the board where the second tier of TEs pop up. Shaheen leads that group, with the size/speed combination to cause matchup problems in the NFL. Tier 6 These players are third-round prospects. They could develop into solid starters, but they either have limited upside or come with a higher element of risk than players worth drafting in the first two rounds. 2017: 47 players | 2016: 46 players Taylor Moton, OT, Western Michigan (79) Gerald Everett, TE, South Alabama (79) DeMarcus Walker, DE, Florida State (79) Teez Tabor, CB, Florida* (79) Joshua Dobbs, QB, Tennessee (79) Cooper Kupp, WR, Eastern Washington (79) Larry Ogunjobi, DT, Charlotte (79) Sidney Jones, CB, Washington* (78) Duke Riley, ILB, LSU (78) Antonio Garcia, OT, Troy (78) Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson (78) Dorian Johnson, OG, Pittsburgh (78) Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (78) Nathan Peterman, QB, Pittsburgh (77) Fabian Moreau, CB, UCLA (77) Derek Rivers, OLB, Youngstown (77) Samaje Perine, RB, Oklahoma* (77) Dalvin Tomlinson, DT, Alabama (77) Alex Anzalone, ILB, Florida* (77) Justin Evans, S, Texas A&M (77) Carlos Henderson, WR, Louisiana Tech* (77) Jaleel Johnson, DT, Iowa (76) Jordan Leggett, TE, Clemson (76) Ethan Pocic, OC, LSU (76) Desmond King, CB, Iowa (76) Carl Lawson, DE, Auburn* (76) Raekwon McMillan, ILB, Ohio State* (76) Taywan Taylor, WR, Western Kentucky (75) Kendell Beckwith, ILB, LSU (75) Bucky Hodges, TE, Virginia Tech* (75) Pat Elflein, OC, Ohio State (75) D'Onta Foreman, RB, Texas* (75) Montravius Adams, DT, Auburn (75) Damontae Kazee, CB, San Diego State (75) Ahkello Witherspoon, CB, Colorado (74) Daeshon Hall, DE, Texas A&M (74) Mack Hollins, WR, North Carolina (74) Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (73) ArDarius Stewart, WR, Alabama* (73) Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State* (72) Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (72) Josh Malone, WR, Tennessee* (71) Rasul Douglas, CB, West Virginia (71) Davis Webb, QB, Cal (70) Malachi Dupre, WR, LSU* (70) Cam Sutton, CB, Tennessee (70) Zach Banner, OT, Southern California (70) Tabor's stock took a nosedive after the combine, where he ran a 4.62 40. No matter how clean your technique is, you need speed to play cornerback at a high level in the NFL, and Tabor's time falls in the red-flag territory. Jones was my No. 12 overall player before he tore his Achilles at Washington's pro day. Some team will get a steal on Day 2 if his recovery goes as planned. I love watching Hollins' tape: He's a very good blocker and shows the toughness to make contested catches over the middle. The only reason he's this low on my board is because he's coming off a collarbone injury.
Most fans feel like Rick screwed up along the way. I get that. My question is, realistically (IE, counting out Derek Carr), who are the other options we could have had? The only other one is Jimmy Garoppolo, and by all accounts, we wanted him. We just got outbid. Instead, we chose Savage. The thing is, no one knows which of the two is better. We're about to see what Savage has. With Jimmy G, people think he is good or has a good shot, but that's largely because the Better Bill has driven his price and theoretical value way up. So, I ask again, name a viable alternative that would have solidified our QB situation, in the last four years, other than David Carr...
Are you saying we couldn't have traded up for a quarterback in any of those years? I'm not the expert. Are you saying that there were no options available in the entire NFL for all the years since Schaub where we could have made a trade for a quarterback better than Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, Mallet, Osweiller, or Weeden? If not, then I stand corrected, but still question why they had no faith in Savage before last season, but since his 1 start last year before he was replaced again he is all of a sudden the man they are confident can lead this team. Maybe he is, but my whole concern was that they were the ones evaluating him all the time and didn't want him as the starter. Now all of a sudden Rick doesn't think they need to worry about drafting a QB in the first round. I just want us to draft Pat Mahomes, so am disappointed, even though I don't know anything. I'm just tired of wanting someone better year after year after year.
Who would you have had them trade up for? That's the question. Did you want Blake Bortles? Manziel? Who are you killing them for not trading up for?
Definitely not Manziel. I never wanted him. As for all the other years I couldn't tell you because I wasn't the expert on scouting quarterbacks, so maybe there was nobody we could have traded up for that ended up being any good. I just wonder if Hoyer, Fitz, Mallet, Osweiller and Weeden were the best of all the free agents available all these years that we could have signed. Maybe they were, and I am wrong about Rick. That being said, nobody can answer the question as to why Savage is all of a sudden good enough, and we don't need to worry about drafting the best QB we can. I just won't agree with that strategy, but hope Savage proves me wrong. If he doesn't, then we are in the same boat again next year, without a top round QB pick who has had a year to develop. But, all those wanting a big fat tackle or blocker can be proud that we can protect the mediocre man.
I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that I'm wondering what the options were. Who could Smith have traded up for to make our situation better? Who could he have signed? I'm honestly curious, because I have a hard time thinking of anybody. It's a question the portion of the fan base that constantly criticizes this regime cannot answer. We could have been more diligent in going after Garoppolo if we truly liked him, which it seems we did. My point is that obviously situations in the NFL are extremely fluid, and just because someone is not on our roster doesn't mean that we didn't think they would be a great player, or that we didn't want to acquire them. Based off of that logic, there is no way for anyone in the fan base to evaluate how well our front office evaluates QBs. With all that said, I'd love to see them commit to someone. If they do it this year, though, they have to have patience. Also, I still believe in Savage. I just don't believe in his ability to stay healthy.
I keep saying to you that they didn't like Savage before, but all of a sudden they think he will be good enough. It makes no sense to me. What was the point of putting him on the back burner behind all those other guys instead of letting him develop before now? Why did Rick say they are fine with Savage now, and give the impression that they will draft a QB, but it might not be their priority? Maybe it's a bluff, who knows. It's just annoying.
O'Brien supposedly wanted to go with Savage as the starter last year before he was persuaded to get on the Osweiler train. And he was going to start Savage against Green Bay until he had the elbow issue. TTFWIW
Every time he got some burn, he got injured. It's happened for two years now. It's not like he was locked away in a dungeon. He had a chance in his second season.
QB's Ricky has had a chance to draft or trade for/sign as a FA that I like since he's been GM. NFC East Dak Cousins Wentz NFC South None NFC North Bradford Cutler NFC West Wilson Goff Palmer AFC East Taylor Jimmy G. AFC South None AFC North McCarron AFC West Carr Smith So Ricky has had many chances to find a QB and passed. After the Brock debacle I dont really blame him. If I was in his shoes I would rather be known timid and indecisive rather than incompetent,
Ever since OBrien got here, the QB situation has gotten steadily worse. Who knew Fitzpatrick would actually be his best starting QB? It's hard to find a good QB, that's true, but that's always been true. It's been 4 years and we're arguably farther away than ever to finding a solution. It's sad that the past 4 years have seen so many QBs come out of the draft and have immediate impacts.
Why did BOB say Savage gave the team its best chance to win then not play him another down last season after Savage suffered the concussion.
Just for fun, how would you rank them? Fitzpatrick Keenum Hoyer Savage Weeden Yates Brock Mallet JJ Wildcat I don't know. You could probably flip them all around and I wouldn't argue much.
