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[Official] Astros Offseason

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Castor27, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. desihooper

    desihooper Contributing Member
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    Then why have him up warming up in Game 6 if the intent was to not pitch him due to overuse?

    He had pitched 5 innings in 4 games over the final seven days of that series. Even though they're more pressure-packed, that's not an inordinate number of appearances for an elite closer, IMO. But getting him up and then not using him in Game 6 doesn't help bolster his confidence which may have helped push him past his physical and mechanical problems. It's in the past, and of course there's nothing anyone can do to change it, but that was my main lament at the time.

    Definitely water under the bridge, but I'm glad Lidge was able to find success and atonement this year.
     
  2. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I'm completely at a loss for words.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles203,0,359953.story

    So $3 million a year is too much for a .850 OPS guy at a premium position where you don't have a viable alternative? Unreal. My biggest problem this offseason isn't Drayton — it's Ed Wade. Yes, I know we don't have all the money in the world, but it also comes back to how the money we do have is budgeted. $3 million a year for one of your better offensive players is too much... but tossing out $3.75 million to Latroy Hawkins, $2.75 million to Doug Brocail, $1.5 million to Brandon Backe, $750K to Boone/Michaels — that's all OK? :confused: That's nearly $10 million the Astros have committed this offseason — aka, even with the bad economy — to players whose production could likely be matched by minor leaguers already in the system.

    And before the apologists start with the "but, Wigginton didn't want $3 million when we cut him," consider two factors. First, take a look at the above contracts given this offseason — the Astros could have given $7 or $8 million if they wanted to and still been OK. Second, it was so easy to see this coming, in regards to free agents and the market. No one has money. There are all sorts of huge bargains to be had — Wigginton, Orlando Hudson, Adam Dunn, Wolf, Braden Looper, Bobby Abreu, etc., etc. Yet, there wasn't a single report that Wade kept in any contact at all with Wigginton's agent after his demands lowered.

    Essentially, Ed Wade chose to tie up what little funds he had this offseason in old, mediocre relievers, one of the worst starting pitchers in all of baseball, and washed up veteran bench players who bring worse numbers than in-house replacements would. The economy is what it is, and while Drayton's stance is frustrating, it's understandable from a logic perspective. What's not understandable or logical is Wade's approach to spending the little $ he's had. It's infuriating.

    Sorry for the rant.
     
    #522 The Cat, Feb 3, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2009
  3. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    No need to apologize. I've been defending Wade all offseason. You're completely right, though. We can sign Boone but can't afford a guy who's light years better at this moment in time for a (relatively) measly $3 million? That really stings. I know Wade's MO has been to overpay relievers. Seeing this is just maddening when you consider who we have signed compared to what Wigginton got.
     
  4. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I watched Round Rock last season. Unless the Express are getting hosed, you are way off base.
     
  5. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    It has nothing to do with the strength of Round Rock and everything to do with how terrible these players are. In the case of Boone, you're talking .680 OPS with poor defense. That's atrocious. With Michaels, you're talking .650 OPS with decent defense. That's almost as bad.

    With Hawkins/Brocail, you're talking old relievers (aka, likely to decline) with a projected ERA around 4. Failed minor league starters make mediocre relievers (4 ERA ish) all the time, in every system. Paulino... Nieve... Norris... put guys like that in the pen, and they're likely to have very similar results to Hawkins/Brocail.

    With Backe... give me a break. It does not take appreciable skill to post an ERA of 6 in the majors. Again, a number of pitchers off the scrap heap could do that. Yes, Round Rock sucks. The point is, these players I referenced suck as well. You're better off using in-house alternatives that suck, as opposed to paying $10 million for outside help that will give you similar results.
     
  6. SamCassell

    SamCassell Contributing Member

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    I have to agree on Wiggington. That's pennies for a good bat at 3B, with the dearth of talent we have at the position. Funny thing is, couple years ago nobody thought he was any good. They wanted Mike Lamb or whoever at the position. Last year, all kinds of people on this board wanted us to keep Adam Everett and let Tejada play 3B. Funny how a good season changes opinions on a veteran player.
     
  7. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Best Round Rock Starting Pitchers last year
    Hernandez...MLB era...8.38
    Cassel.......MLB era....5.64
    Muecke....AAA era (no MLB experience)...4.89

    I don't see these guys as being capable of producing similar results as Hawkins/Brocail.

    Bud Norris is the guy that has a good chance of being help from minors and he doesn't have AAA experience.
     
  8. Major Malcontent

    Major Malcontent Contributing Member

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    Would sure feel better to have Wiggy.

    I don't think if used properly that Blum and Boone are gonna post .650 OPS's though.

    They are dime a dozen players..but at least they are complimentary dime a dozen players. Blum makes Adam Everett look like Mike Schmidt against left handed pitchers, he at least is competantish against righties.

    Boone posted a .819 OPS against left handed pitching (in very limited at bats) last year.

    Not defending signing Wiggy over Brocail and Hawkins though.

    I think a lot of organizational decisions are based on its safer (for GM's and staff) to lose with guys Drayton has heard of than to lose with guys he hasn't heard of.
     
  9. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    What could we have done with $10M?

    1. Wiggy at $3M
    2. Sheets at $4M (probably)
    3. Pudge Rodriguez at maybe $3M

    How much different would our upcoming season look? Wow!
     
  10. arif1127

    arif1127 Contributing Member
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    if the stros went to arbitration with wiggy it would have ended up costing more than $3m. Sheets is still looking for a 3 year deal at $36m, so i don't know where you are getting $4m from. So really its hard to say what that $10m could have gotten the team.
     
  11. zantabak1111

    zantabak1111 Member

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    what are you smoking thinking sheets is getting $4M a year. In case you didn't notice carlos silva and gil emche are bringing in $12M a year, hell russ springer doug brocail types are worth $4M a year now.
     
  12. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

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    that's pretty horrid.. wiggy joins Luke, Patton, etc. over with the O's. Just disappointing..
     
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Oliver Perez got 3yr $36 million last week. I have to believe Sheets can get that.
     
  14. DoitDickau

    DoitDickau Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure. There are serious questions about sheet's arm injury. It's questionable if he'll even pitch this year.

    Further to zanabak's point:
    Meche and Silvia didn't sign this offseason. In case you hadn't noticed we're in an economic depression. Jon Garland just signed for one-year ~7 million, or about the same price/minus two years that Jason Marquis signed for (coming off a 6 era) two seasons ago.
     
  15. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    Wolf is going to regret not jumping all over the Astros' initial offer.
     
  16. desihooper

    desihooper Contributing Member
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    No doubt; looks like Ed Wade read that one right. I guess we can give Ed credit for not offering arbitration to Wiggy as well. I just wish he could've got them both on the cheap. That would've given us a little more to look forward to going to Spring Training.
     
  17. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    I had forgotten that he would be missing part of next season or even the entire season. He could take a very cheap 1 year deal and hit the market next year when his arm is fully recovered. If he wanted to that he'd be better off actually not signing at all and waiting until mid-season when he was ready to pitch and could show that he was healthy. There will be teams shopping for another SP come June - July. There always is.
     
  18. GraingerGuy

    GraingerGuy Member

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    Just call them the Baltimore Astros.....:)
     
  19. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Doug Brocail signed for a LOT less than that.

    Sheets has ONE team (the Rangers) even showing interest right now. Those talks have cooled off since last week. The Rangers are looking at a one year deal for a greatly reduced salary.

    Teams have been scared off by Sheets' medical history. He will have to take a very low salary comparatively or not sign at all.
     
  20. DBrunk01

    DBrunk01 Member

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    Yeah, we keep losing all our good players to Baltimore huh? We're like....stocking them up SOLID.

    They almost won 65 games last year. Hey, with Wiggy maybe they'll win 70.

    Wigginton beats Blum/Boone no doubt guys, but come one - you all know good and well he's not as good as that hot streak he went on last year. Even Aubrey Huff and his big year on a bad team as mostly a DH - isn't THAT good, at least not in the NL.

    What bugs me is not that Wigginton got away, but that they don't use that savings on making a run at a real starting pitcher, even if you have to add a couple mil to that and take the payroll up a few. Cuz this staff?? SUCKS.
     

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