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NYT: Trump Says He Will Sign Free Speech Order for College Campuses

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by BruceAndre, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    And, more important, the safety of the students and faculty are most important.
     
    #61 NewRoxFan, Mar 5, 2019
  2. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    Yes, BUT if they fail to do that, should we fund their non inclusiveness (and corresponding neglect of following the First Amendment)?

    We should strive to not rob or murder each other too. Should we therefore not have laws about that?
     
    #62 BigDog63, Mar 5, 2019
  3. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    She signed an NDA
     
    #63 BruceAndre, Mar 5, 2019
  4. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    No, I don't think anyone can openly advocate violence against anyone. That would be a good standard, except some on the left now think that reducing govt spending and ending a social program is "violence."

    There was an important free speech case in the US during WW1 (there was a lot of domestic opposition to the war), and it brought about this Supreme Court Ruling:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

    "The opinion's most famous and most often quoted passage was this:

    The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. ... The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent. It is a question of proximity and degree.[6]

    The phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has since become a popular metaphor for dangers or limitations of free speech."

    So, there are some logical and appropriate limitations on free speech.

    But IMO, getting speaking events by Charles Murray or Milo Yiannopolous canceled are not among those. I don't believe either individual has ever advocated violence. Those events were canceled because the SJWs could not tolerate their message.
     
    #64 BruceAndre, Mar 5, 2019
  5. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    Then maybe we should re-think calling these people adults, and letting them vote.
     
    #65 BruceAndre, Mar 5, 2019
    jcf likes this.
  6. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    But in almost all of these cases where speaking events were canceled (Charles Murray/Milo/others), the university had to agree to them in the first place. If they later cancel them, bowing to pressure, how good is their planning and preparation for such speaking events?
     
    #66 BruceAndre, Mar 5, 2019
  7. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    An interesting note I might add: I was attending UH (main campus) in the fall of 1990, when Desert Storm was ramping up.

    Some anti-war speakers had put together a speaking event to protest the imminent conflict. For my fellow Cougars, this was in the UC-Satellite area near Cullen, where it kind of goes down into an area under a hill. (I wonder if this still exists?)

    Just as the speakers began to speak, a group of 30-40 (of what I assume were conservatives) all lined up not too far away, and in unison started chanting "shut up, shut up, shut up."

    It was fairly unsettling, and seemed like it could turn ugly. I actually can't remember how that ended, except I don't think any violence broke out. Probably, the speakers kept going despite the calls for them to "shut up."

    But in that case, everybody was allowed to "speak."
     
    #67 BruceAndre, Mar 5, 2019
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  8. jcf

    jcf Member

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    I don't think the our government (the taxpayers) should be required to fund an advanced education system that teaches one "correct" way of thinking and shuts down any dissenting voices. That leads to terrible results ultimately even if you are initially in favor of what is being taught.

    We need people thinking for themseves. We need people analyzing critically grey issues.

    Feeding young adults the idea that there is only one proper line of thinking is not education, and while one may enjoy it now, it is ripe for abuse.
     
    #68 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
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  9. jcf

    jcf Member

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    appararently, you can sell your rights more than once..
     
    #69 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    These "guest speakers" are hardly part of their education. If your major is something like Political Science, they don't teach you "one way". For example i took an intro to political theory gen ed. We read multiple works from various spectrums of political ideology and wrote analytical papers expressing our own opinions. Professors don't grade on opinions. They grade on how well you can express them and support it with documentation. I'm sure advanced political science courses for people in that field are much more in depth and the reading material for more dense and varied.

    How do you think these curriculums work? Do you think these guest speakers are a part of their ciriculumn? How do you think your typical liberal arts class is run like?

    It seems like your post is completely devoid of what actually goes on in a social science ciriculumn especially when you draw your conclusions from these protest clashes rather than actual curriculum taught.
     
    #70 fchowd0311, Mar 5, 2019
  11. jcf

    jcf Member

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    So, you are a social science major pursuing a grad degree in some form of engineering?
     
    #71 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit or maybe you don't know what a "gen ed" is.

    The point is what I took was an intro level class. Where do you get they teach "one way" btw? From protest clashes?

    Do you have anything based in curriculum... You know... What they actually are taught in class?
     
    #72 fchowd0311, Mar 5, 2019
  13. jcf

    jcf Member

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    You can throw around insults. That's fine. you stated "I'm sure political science courses..." but maybe you were just guessing.

    You are in school pursuing a degree. Congrats. You have very strong opinions. Congrats. I hope the best for you.
     
    #73 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
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  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You made a claim about "teaching one way" based off YouTube click bait.

    I'm not the one making half assed generalizations based on anecdotes. Did you attempt to understand an entire field of srudy's curriculum before you made a half assed generalization based on past protest clashes at one school?
     
    #74 fchowd0311, Mar 5, 2019
  15. jcf

    jcf Member

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    Seriously, can you step back a bit? I am not trying to insult you.
     
    #75 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
  16. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Those ideas will lose.
     
    #76 dachuda86, Mar 5, 2019
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    What in their actual ciriculumn makes you state this generalization?
     
    #77 fchowd0311, Mar 5, 2019
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    And the deaths and harm those ideas cause are merely collateral damage for you.

    Always amazes me

    "I want to say hateful things towards blacks, brownies, and Jews on College Campuses" - FREE SPEECH!!!!

    "I want to burn a flag or kneel during the anthem" - TREASON!!!!!
     
    #78 Sweet Lou 4 2, Mar 5, 2019
  19. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Reread what I wrote, then your response.
     
    #79 NewRoxFan, Mar 5, 2019
  20. jcf

    jcf Member

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    You are right. I think I hit the wrong reply. My response was not responding to your post obviously.
     
    #80 jcf, Mar 5, 2019
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