No, Victor Wembanyama Is Not the GOAT Rookie. Not even close...

I agree, the rookie status is one that you can absolutely ignore........Scola was a 27 year old rookie for crying out loud.....

 

This is the second time you've said this now. When did this occur? When did Wembanyama ever play against a Silas-coached Nix, Tate and KMJ? Unless you're saying the Spurs couldn't hack it against the Rockets last season, in which case, what does that have to do with literally anything? All that's saying, is that the Spurs are a bad team.

Also, I think you're missing the overall point - the fact that Wemby's rookie season even warrants a comparison to other great rookie years even while he has many factors going against him, is a testament to just how great Wemby's season is.

Magic was being drafted onto a team that had KAJ and just went 47-35, the year before. Wemby was being drafted onto a team with benchwarmers masquerading as starters and just went 22-60 the year before.

Wemby's team sucked, and still sucks. Wemby's team couldn't figure out what to do with him, early on. The GOAT HC is only now starting to show what Wemby can become.

When your main point of contention is "the Spurs sucked in years past and that's why Wemby's rookie season shouldn't be up there," that makes zero logical sense, doesn't track at all, and just makes you sound like an irrational person who people can't discuss topics with.

 

Rox got 20 wins with Silas and Daishen Nix. Why Silas and co can get 20 wins with no star but generational talent Wemby scrambling to get 13 wins? And your logic is so bad so the more the Spurs lose the more that'd a testament to Wembys greatness? Huh? By your logic Daishen Nix is better than Wemby because there isn't a generational talent on his team so he has even more going against him right?

You Wembyaniacs keep moving the goal posts that's your problem. If you want to say Wemby deserves to be ROY ok. If you want to say Wemby has a great rookie season ok.

But that's not what you are saying right? You are claiming Wemby is the GOAT rookie or he is somehow a top 10 NBA player. Both of those claims would need team wins since the bar is higher. Players put up great stats on bad teams all the time you haven't seen somebody put up 20/10 before? Hell Paolo Banchero put up 20/7/4 his rookie year and Magic went from 22 to 34 and he was the only significant addition to his team. Did anybody say Banchero is the GOAT rookie and top 10 NBA player?

Wemby is putting up 20/10 but just that is not enough to say he is already a top 10 player. He needs to impact winning. Devin Vassel, Jeremy Sohan, Malakai Branham, Keldon Johnson, these are a lot better than players on the Pistons. They shouldn't have close records if Wemby is indeed a top 10 player. Put rookie LeBron, Kareem, TD, Hakeem, Magic, Shaq, MJ on the Spurs I guarantee they get more than 13 wins.

Your last paragraph makes zero sense the Spurs duck now not in years past. You are the irrational one claiming GOAT rookie is only good for 13 wins.

 

Yeah, so I stopped reading your post at the bolded, tbh. Posters like you are so stupid. Why do you think that if someone speaks somewhat positively about a person, they're a "-aniac" or "-lover" or something, and when they speak negatively, they must be a "hater?" Imagine trying to have a legitimate conversation about the topic at hand, but since I don't 100% agree with you, I must be a "Wembyaniac."

Your post is tl;dr, and it's not worth my time to read whatever you wrote. Sorry you spent all that time typing something no one will care about. But congratulations or sorry that happened. idk which it is.

 

I read it.
TLDR - Spurs have much better pieces ex-Wemby than the Pistons, hence records should not be comparable if Wemby impacts winning in a meaningful way (fair pt but debatable). Also, a premise that if you switched Wemby w/ other historically great rookies the Spurs record would be better (I agree).

Frankly, those seem like objective assessments or, at the very least, objectively debatable and worth consideration.

Last bit - when you say stuff like "not to discount Magic but..." It's like someone pointing out "not to discount Wemby's improvements but if he shot 25% from 3 to start the year in 1990..." I, too, take offense to how quickly the younger generation spews "hater" when they really mean "I hate facts and why don't you agree with me!" But in this case, I can see where he's coming from if you say not to discount and then bring up playing w/ a top all-time player....the intent IS very clearly to discount via context lol. Not inaccurate. But very clearly discounting with the intent to discount. Is what is it. No biggie.

 

I don't know that it's fair to compare modern rookies with rookies from back in the 70's and 80's and even early 90's when often times those guys were coming into the league at 21,22 and 23 years of age.

I do agree he isn't the greatest rookie of all time or even the last couple decades. Luka and Zion made a much more immediate impact in even the last ten years. That said, he's an other worldly prospect and potential top 5 player of all time. He's just got a long way to go to get there.

 

Nobody is debating Wemby's future greatness. The problem is people now over inflate him and make stupid claims like he is the GOAT rookie or a top 10 player just based off highlight reels.

Just in recent years I'm pretty sure Rookie Banchero and Rookie Luka had a better rookie season than Wemby, not to mention historical greats like Magic.

 

Wemby got rekt by Jock. Is that short enough for you?

 

Dude has 0 argument that's why he pulls out that tldr card lmao.

 

I agree with Luka. I think Banchero is debatable. Wemby is much more impactful on the defensive end and really isn't too too far behind him on the offensive numbers. It's close though, whichever way it falls.

 

The Hype has subsided a lot .....before the Draft he was the generational piece that could challenge LBJ.....

Now only 1 or 2 talking heads are calling him GOAT rookie, I would gladly take that.

 

He's a top 40 player right now. I heard some folks say top 20 already which is a bit much. But his trajectory coming in as a top 40 guy his first year is insane.

 

Banchero is more impactful because his playmaking made Orlando go from 22 wins to 34 wins and he was the only significant player they added.

The counting stats are similar and Wembanyama is even more efficient than Banchero his rookie year but Banchero served as the offensive engine of the Magic and made everyone around him like Franz Wagner better. OTH Wemby is dependent on the Spurs guards to get him the ball and he is often frozen out on critical possessions. Sure Wemby is a savant defensively but clearly that's not enough since Spurs only got 14 wins their defense as a whole is kinda ****.

If you replaced Wemby with Banchero I guarantee Spurs win more than 14 games by now since Banchero's playmaking and triple threat would make all the Spurs better. These guys like Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassel etc everyone acts like they are scrubs but they won 34 games with Dejounte Murray. So losing him and Poetl and adding Sohan and Wemby the Spurs went from 34 to 14 lol. It's pretty clear how important having a playmaker is and that's why Banchero is better than Wemby despite what the stats say.

 

Not really that insane. He is amazing but I wouldn't say he has managed to stand out from the best rookies in recent memory like Luka, Zion, Ant, Banchero etc People just hyped the **** out of him due to his highlights.

 

I disagree, none of those guys were even top 50 guys except for Luka their rookie season. And Luka is arguably the best player in the league right now (top 3 at least).

He has a very unique body and playstyle which is why he is getting so much attention. But he has backed it up so far.

 

20/10 on 56% TS is really good but not exactly record breaking. Wemby's Alien frame is really good for optics but when you break it down to the essence I don't see how he is much different from other generational talents. I don't even know how you can say he is top 40 and the rest aren't etc. there's no objective way to determine that it's all based on opinion.

Banchero in his rookie year added 10 wins to the Orlando win total. His game isn't as pretty as Wemby but it is more effective. If he was on the Spurs this year over Wemby they would get more wins.

 

I appreciate that you acknowledge that their roles are very different and that it's difficult for Wemby to be as impactful offensively when he's so dependent on the guards (and Jeremy Sochan was playing point guard for them for half the damn year).

However, I don't think it's fair to just sum it up as "Banchero elevated his teammates". Wenbanyama joined the Spurs after year 1 of truly tanking. The Spurs should have began tanking years ago, but instead they held on and tried to remain competitive and retool around Dejounte Murray. The tank didn't truly begin until they unloaded Murray and Poetl.

Wenbanyama is playing with a grand total of one lottery pick. Jeremy Sochan (#9). Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson were #24 and #29 respectively. Tre Jones was picked in the second round. These are the best players around Wenbanyama.

Banchero, on the other hand, joined a team with #8 pick Franz Wagner, #5 pick Jalen Suggs, #15 Cole Anthony, #1 pick Markelle Fultz, and #7 pick Wendell Carter Jr.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think it's apples to oranges. I'm definitely going Wenbanyama over Paolo as a rookie, though I would not put him before Luka.

 

He's top 25 in both Box Plus Minus and Value Over Replacement Player. His counting stats are good. Where I dock him is his win shares, he's only like 140th in that. A lot of stats go into my rankings personally and he excels at lots of them.

He did not win those 10 extra games by himself. He had 2.6 win shares last season, so you can give him credit for a few but to give him all the credit for their improvement is not fair to the other guys who also improved. I think Paolo and Wemby are neck and neck this year overall, both top 40 guys.

 

56% is solid for league avg, good for guards, but below average for centers. Centers should strive for TS 58% or above. That said, Wemby played half of a season not as center, and took lot of ill-advised 3's in the name of exploration.

He has a lot to work with, high potential and upside, but I wouldn't put him in the g.o.a.t. rookie conversation as far as current year performance.

 

Win shares on both sides of the ball implicity factors in points scored by your team and points allowed by your team - it's pretty much impossible to score high as a tanking team. The fact that he's as high as he is on defense is a funciton of the crazy numbers he puts up that overcomes this.

Somebody tell me with a straight face that wemby is not a top 5 or better defender in the league? He's putting up prime Hakeem numbers in steals and blocks and - again, the gravity warping that he does when guards 1) dribble into the lane and 2) say "oh no" and then dribble back out - is unique to any player in the league.