Brady will go to Canton as the guy who ate Manning's lunch. It's not fair. Not surprising though. Brady's been doing more with less. He's the ultimate thrift shop QB.
He's got the best coach in football...that's the biggest advantage he could ever have. Brady is not a HOFer without Belichick.
I never understood these arguments where players are criticized for having a good coach. You judge him on what he's accomplished, not the pieces around him. It's not like Belichick was successful without Brady. His only losing season with the Patriots was when Brady never started, and he got himself fired in Cleveland. It goes both ways. It's like saying Kobe or Jordan wouldn't be as great without Phil Jackson. It's probably true, but no way of knowing, so it's pointless to even mention.
**** this. Garbage refs. I'm about to switch from football and basketball to following cross country skiing.
Just how good is the talent around Manning or is Manning just making them that much better? Eric Decker last year had 87 catches for 1288 yards. Now he's on pace for 62 catches for 726. Last year was Emanuel Sanders best season and he had 67 catches for 740 yards. He's now on pace for 92 catches for 1268 yards. If I was a mediocre WR I would sign with Denver for a one year contract so I can get a #1 WR contract the following year from someone else. Brady has also had Welker, Moss, Gronk, and Hernandez during his career. But I do agree he has not had the receiving threats of Manning.
I'm gonna call bull**** on this. Belichick is not an offensive guru. Before he was a head coach, his last offensive gig was as a TE/WR coach in '77.
The Pats went 11-5 without Brady the year he was injured. Brady is great. But give Bellichick some credit. It's a QB's league, and he went 11-5 without his starting QB.
I do, he's on the short list of best head coaches in the NFL. I'm just saying that he is not the mind behind their offense. Always been a defensive guy yet he's pulled in and learned from a bunch of great offensive coaches. And it does make you look smarter when you have a HOF quarterback.
The Patriots have won their SBs when their defense was great. They have never won it due to their offense, or their offense as the main reason. Like I said, it's a QB's league. Having a HOF QB makes the job easier. But considering he had Cassell as his QB and still went 11-5 that year speaks to his coaching ability, moreso than his dependency on Brady. Again, what Bellichick does for NE goes beyond coaching. He runs a tight ship. Players who play there has to follow by his rules. And he brings in players who play beyond their ability. They both help one another, but Bellichick is New England. If his defensive imprint isn't all over the team, the Pats aren't going anywhere, even if Brady puts up big numbers. And I think that's what makes Manning's resurgence so impressive. He puts up numbers in Indy. And he puts up even bigger numbers in Denver. People say b/c of the talent surrounding him. I follow the NFL and I clearly don't remember hearing the Broncos as a stacked team offensively, prior to Manning's arrival (with Orton and Tebow preceding him) What Manning lacks is playoff success, and that is also due to a lack of a good defense behind him to cover him a little bit.
Being great is one thing _ winning championships is another... And Kobe and Jordan have never won a championship without Phil and they had different coaches besides Phil... Coaching is more important in football than it is in any other sport. Games are often won and lost by decisions coaches make. And Belichick actually did have a little success without Brady. And a argument could be made that they might have won a championship with Drew Bledsoe if he hadn't got hurt. People forget that those 3 championships were won on the back of the defense.
That's hard to say... For the simple fact that Charlie Weis, Josh McDaniels, and as of now O'Brien didn't look like offensive geniuses away from New England. Belichick is also responsible for drafting Brady and probably every other Patriot in uniform.
It might be more important, but its always about the players. How many NFL coaches get to the superbowl multiple times. Great QBs tend to end up in the sb multiple times.
True... And Belichick is the person responsible for drafting Brady and they didn't need a quarterback at that time either. And again _ those super bowls were won on the back of the defense. Brady even had a Russell Wilson type year when they won with Corey Dillon.
Things to consider while acknowledging that Bill Belichick has no problem stopping the Greatest Offense Ever Assembled, but can’t figure out how to change his car clock for Daylight Savings: This game was Peyton Manning’s career in microcosm. Gaudy numbers. More records set. Hell, there might even be another Offensive Player of the Week award in it for him. But once again in a big moment, outdoors in the splendor of nature the way God intended football to be played, his Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) kicked in. He padded his resume plenty and had Fantasy points all over the place, but did very little in terms making actual plays to win an actual, real life game. I wish I could tell you how the Patriots defense pulled it off, but I’d have to watch it a hundred more times and still probably couldn’t figure it out. Basically they fired every bullet at Manning, then threw the empty gun. I can tell you they played virtually ever down in a 4-2-5 with one safety in the box and Devin McCourty back in Cover 1. Dont’a Hightower and Jamie Collins took virtually every snap at LB. And even though blitzing Manning is supposed to be the equivalent of feeding Gizmo after midnight, that’s exactly what they did, early and often. From the there, the pattern was not having a pattern. Darrelle Revis and Brandon Browner switched who they were covering. They flipped sides. They went from Man to Zone at will from play to play. For most of the game they put Malcolm Butler singled on Emmanuel Sanders and he shut him down (a 3rd & 20 when Manning came right after him went incomplete, a pass defended on a perfectly timed hit, tight coverage on 3rd down to force an incompletion, tackle short of the 1st on 4th & short). Overall they had 8 passes defended, 3 by Pat Chung alone, which back in the dark days of the Wheatley-Wilhite era, used to be half a season’s worth for this team. If ever there was a stat that was for losers, the passing yards in this game is it because the secondary did themselves proud in this one. Nothing in the world makes a fanbase sound more podunk and stupid than griping that the announcers “hate us.” And believe me, I concede no one gets the reacharound from their “broadcast partners” like the Krafts do. But you have to admit, there’s an entirely different tone when Manning is soiling himself than when Brady does. He made mistakes all over the place, from not seeing Rob Ninkovich dropping back underneath Demariyus Thomas’ route for the pick to overthrowing Sanders in the end zone. But Phil Simms kept up his usual Heavy Peyton all night. Where’s the talk Brady got after the KC game? Where’s the stuff about declining skills and closing windows and “age catching up to him” like he went to school in Pangea fercrisssakes? When Manning has a lousy night – and converting 3-of-11 on 3rd down and 0-of-4 on 4th IS a lousy night – we just hear how “disappointed” he is. Again, it’s idiotic to say they “hate us.” But is a little objective criticism of The Chosen One too much to ask? I guess it’s not so easy to beat the Patriots defense without Wes Welker pulling a Gillooly on their best cornerback, huh? I have to admit, seeing him drop a ball he should’ve had (where I have heard that before?) for an interception then get knocked out on a clean body blow from McCourty was pretty damned satisfying. I prefer my wins well done with a side of Karmic Retribution. Looking back, it’s laughable to think people took last year’s AFC Championship Game as a sign that Denver had passed the Patriots by. They beat a Pats team that was so plagued by injuries it was as if Belichick had refused help to some old one-eyed gypsy lady. The Broncos hosted a team of street free agents, castoffs, practice squad players and guys the temp agency sent and beat them by 10 and we acted as if the Earth was spinning backwards. To put it in perspective: from then til now the Pats have replaced Mathew Mulligan with Rob Gronkowski and Austin Collie with Brandon LaFell. Put this current roster in the Delorean, set the flux capacitor to last January and line these two teams up again, and the Patriots not only win that game, it isn’t even close. I credit Denver for at least trying to put more than one guy on Gronk, which is more than Chicago did. But Brady made them pay when they did. On the touchdown to Shane Vereen that made it 27-7, it looked like Nate Irving had spy responsibilities on Vereen, but he fell back into the deep zone to double Gronk and left Vereen all alone on the goal line. The one time they did single cover Gronk was no better. Putting Von Miller on him out wide on 1st & goal was just conceding a touchdown. I’d call it taking candy from a baby but the baby would at least put up a fight. If Boston College gave up a play like that the FBI would be investigating them for point shaving. John Fox looks more like Jeff Dunham’s old man puppet every time we see him. How many more weeks in a row are we going to hear about the next big defensive Front-7 the Pats will face with elite pass rushers who are going to be a huge challenge blabbity blah blah before we realize their O-line is playing extremely well? Miller was a non-factor. And you couldn’t find Demarcus Ware unless you tagged him with one of those wildlife trackers they put on sharks. For all the dire warnings about unstoppable rushers they’ve faced, they’ve given up the 11th fewest sacks in the league. I say again: The Mankins trade was a great deal and I’d do it again without hesistation. While we’re talking about pass rushers, Akeem Ayers just got here and is 2-for-2 when it comes to making gigantic impact plays. His sack on 4th & 6 just before the half was an amazing piece of improv, where the Pats only rushed 3 but he crossed Ryan Clady’s face, came behind Wilfork who was engaging with Orlando Franklin. Partly because Ayers was so quick and partly because you could hide a mid-sized sedan behind Vince, no one saw him and he dropped Manning before he could even plant his feet. Not bad for a guy who pulled into town about 10 days ago and only had 3 tackles on the season in Tennessee. Remember a couple of years back when the Patriots were trying to get Edelman more involved and everyone clutched their pearls and fainted over what a slap in the face it was to Welker? Yeah, well about that… The team had a younger, cheaper, more sure-handed, BETTER Welker on their roster. If anyone should be outraged, it’s the fans of the 31 teams that let him go back to New England for the veteran minimum. Minitron’s touchdown catch was a thing of schematic beauty. Gronk was in the middle of a 3-man bunch with Edelman outside and Amedola inside. Those two ran a deep cross while Gronk ran a straight Go and again drew the double team. As soon as Brady read it, he hit Edelman in stride. But his best reception might have been the pure effort one where he sat down under the coverage, caught it and bear crawled 6 yards for the first. That to me, even more than his punt return, was his “Are you not entertained?!?” moment of the night. Taking nothing away from the runback of course. It spoke volumes to me he needed the breathing mask afterwards, because Edelman’s own awesomeness burned all the oxygen out of the stadium. Fox is another one of those garden variety coaches that is fighting out of his weight class when he has to match wits with Belichick. Last year in the regular season game, the Pats emptied the tackle box, dared Denver to beat them on the ground and Fox took the cheese. Knowshon Moreno got 230 yards, was a Fantasy hero for a week, but lost. This time with only 2 LBs they went with either Chung or Browner up in the robber spot. But every time Manning checked to a run, the Pats had a run blitz that stuffed it. On the other side of the ball, the first play after the half, the Patriots caught Denver with 9 in the box, so they faked the handoff to Vereen, faked the reverse to Edelman and hit LaFell underneath the only other two defenders for 19. Just a perfect case of coming out of the locker room with the perfect call for what the defense comes at you with. I bet given enough time, Belichick could’ve talked Fox into swallowing his own tongue like Hannibal Lecter did to Multiple Miggs. My favorite moments are when an opponent installs a trick play, practices it all week, and still cocks it up with an Illegal Formation, like happened with Andre Caldwell in the 2nd. Oops. My bad. The correct term is “Undocumented Formation.” I’m no racist. When Manning leaves the field after throwing a pick, he always looks like the bad photo they use in a negative political attack ad. “Senator Manning takes money from special interest lobbyists. While Governor Brady believes in fighting for working families…” Is it me or is Brady rolling out of the pocket and throwing on the run better than he ever has before? I mean, he’s no Russell Wilson. But some of those throws, like the 3rd & 8 to Amendola for 21 were no joke. It feels like something he worked on this offseason, like the summer Larry Bird took 500 shots a day with his left hand. If Browner played hockey he’d lead the league in Penalty Minutes. But I’ll take him and Revis hand fighting for five yards on every play — with the holding calls — over the off coverage we’re used to seeing any day. You know the defense isn’t in fear of Manning when in the middle of his cadence, Hightower casually walked over about 10 feet, found his mouthguard lying on the ground and put it in his mouth. Next time he ought to make Manning do it for him, like Joffrey making Tyrion bring him wine when his pie was dry. Of course nothing was as big a pimp move as filling the building with guys who’ve won three championships. Whether they made Peyton kiss the rings literally or only figuratively is only a matter of degrees. This Week’s Applicable Movie Quote: “’Revenge is a dish best served cold.’ – Old Klingon Proverb” – Title card from “Kill Bill Vol I” You do realize the Pats were end zone drops by Edelman and LaFell away from dropping a fiddy on Denver? My biggest regret there is we would’ve been treated to some good old fashioned “running up the score” talk, which is my favorite. I guess having the best record in the AFC will just have to suffice for now. Onto the bye?
Eh - this is way overrated. Overall, Manning is 5-11 vs Brady. Brady won the first 6 matchups, but they are 5-5 against each other since. They are 2-2 against each other in the playoffs. 10 of those 16 games were in New England. They faced each other twice last season, with NE winning at home in the regular season, and Denver winning at home in the playoffs. Brady's dominance is based on the early stretch from 2001-2004, but in the last 10 years, the rivalry has basically been dead even.
