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New Poll- Most Iraqis Want Immediate U.S. Withdrawal

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Contributing Member
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    Our own intelligence services are telling us that Iraq is creating more terrorists and the Iraqis are telling us to leave.

    Why are we still there?


    Most Iraqis Favor Immediate U.S. Pullout, Polls Show
    Leaders' Views Out of Step With Public

    By Amit R. Paley
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, September 27, 2006; A22



    BAGHDAD, Sept. 26 -- A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers.

    In Baghdad, for example, nearly three-quarters of residents polled said they would feel safer if U.S. and other foreign forces left Iraq, with 65 percent of those asked favoring an immediate pullout, according to State Department polling results obtained by The Washington Post.

    Another new poll, scheduled to be released on Wednesday by the Program on International Policy Attitudes at the University of Maryland, found that 71 percent of Iraqis questioned want the Iraqi government to ask foreign forces to depart within a year. By large margins, though, Iraqis believed that the U.S. government would refuse the request, with 77 percent of those polled saying the United States intends keep permanent military bases in the country.

    The stark assessments, among the most negative attitudes toward U.S.-led forces since they invaded Iraq in 2003, contrast sharply with views expressed by the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Last week at the United Nations, President Jalal Talabani said coalition troops should remain in the country until Iraqi security forces are "capable of putting an end to terrorism and maintaining stability and security."

    "Only then will it be possible to talk about a timetable for the withdrawal of the multinational forces from Iraq," he said.

    Recent polls show many Iraqis in nearly every part of the country disagree.

    "Majorities in all regions except Kurdish areas state that the Multi-National Force-Iraq (MNF-I) should withdraw immediately, adding that the MNF-I's departure would make them feel safer and decrease violence," concludes the 20-page State Department report, titled "Iraq Civil War Fears Remain High in Sunni and Mixed Areas." The report was based on 1,870 face-to-face interviews conducted from late June to early July.

    The Program on International Policy Attitudes poll, which was conducted over the first three days of September for WorldPublicOpinion.org, found that support among Sunni Muslims for a withdrawal of all U.S.-led forces within six months dropped to 57 percent in September from 83 percent in January.

    "There is a kind of softening of Sunni attitudes toward the U.S.," said Steven Kull, director of PIPA and editor of WorldPublicOpinion.org. "But you can't go so far as to say the majority of Sunnis don't want the U.S. out. They do. They're just not quite in the same hurry as they were before."

    The PIPA poll, which has a margin of error of 3 percent, was carried out by Iraqis in all 18 provinces who conducted interviews with more than 1,000 randomly selected Iraqis in their homes.

    Using complex sampling methods based on data from Iraq's Planning Ministry, the pollsters selected streets on which to conduct interviews. They then contacted every third house on the left side of the road. When they selected a home, the interviewers then collected the names and birth dates of everyone who lived there and polled the person with the most recent birthday.

    Matthew Warshaw, a senior research manager at D3 Systems, which helped conduct the poll, said he didn't think Iraqis were any less likely to share their true opinions with pollsters than Americans. "It's a concern you run up against in Iowa or in Iraq," he said. "But for the most part we're asking questions that people want to give answers to. People want to have their voice heard."

    The greatest risk, he said, was the safety of the interviewers. Two pollsters for another Iraqi firm were recently killed because of their work.

    The State Department report did not give a detailed methodology for its poll, which it said was carried out by an unnamed Iraqi polling firm. Lou Fintor, a spokesman for the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, said he could not comment on the public opinion surveys.

    The director of another Iraqi polling firm, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he feared being killed, said public opinion surveys he conducted last month showed that 80 percent of Iraqis who were questioned favored an immediate withdrawal. Eight-five percent of Sunnis in that poll supported an immediate withdrawal, a number virtually unchanged in the past two years, except for the two months after the Samarra bombing, when the number fell to about 70 percent, the poll director said.

    "The very fact that there is such a low support for American forces has to do with the American failure to do basically anything for Iraqis," said Mansoor Moaddel, a professor of sociology at Eastern Michigan University, who commissioned a poll earlier this year that also found widespread support for a withdrawal. "It's part of human nature. People respect authority and power. But the U.S. so far has been unable to establish any real authority."

    Interviews with two dozen Baghdad residents in recent weeks suggest one central cause for Iraqi distrust of the Americans: They believe the U.S. government has deliberately thrown the country into chaos.

    The most common theory heard on the streets of Baghdad is that the American military is creating a civil war to create an excuse to keep its forces here.

    "Do you really think it's possible that America -- the greatest country in the world -- cannot manage a small country like this?" Mohammad Ali, 42, an unemployed construction worker, said as he sat in his friend's electronics shop on a recent afternoon. "No! They have not made any mistakes. They brought people here to destroy Iraq, not to build Iraq."

    As he drew on a cigarette and two other men in the store nodded in agreement, Ali said the U.S. government was purposely depriving the Iraqi people of electricity, water, gasoline and security, to name just some of the things that most people in this country often lack.

    "They could fix everything in one hour if they wanted!" he said, jabbing his finger in the air for emphasis.

    Mohammed Kadhem al-Dulaimi, 54, a Sunni Arab who used to be a professional soccer player, said he thought the United States was creating chaos in the country as a pretext to stay in Iraq as long as it has stayed in Germany.

    "All bad things that are happening in Iraq are just because of the Americans," he said, sipping a tiny cup of sweet tea in a cafe. "When should they leave? As soon as possible. Every Iraqi will tell you this."

    Many Iraqi political leaders, on the other hand, have been begging the Americans to stay, especially since the February bombing of a Shiite Muslim shrine in Samarra, which touched off the current round of sectarian reprisal killings between Sunnis and Shiites.

    The most dramatic about-face came from Sunni leaders, initially some of the staunchest opponents to the U.S. occupation, who said coalition forces were the only buffer preventing Shiite militias from slaughtering Sunnis.

    Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, the outspoken Sunni speaker of parliament who this summer said that "the U.S. occupation is the work of butchers," now supports the U.S. military staying in Iraq for as long as a decade.

    "Don't let them go before they have corrected what they have done," he said in an interview this month. "They should stay for four years. This is the minimum. Maybe 10 years."

    Particularly in mixed neighborhoods here in the capital, some Sunnis say the departure of U.S. forces could trigger a genocide. Hameed al-Kassi, 24, a recent college graduate who lives in the Yarmouk district of Baghdad, worried that rampages by Shiite militias could cause "maybe 60 to 70 percent of the Sunnis to be killed, even the women, old and the young."

    "There will be lakes of blood," Kassi said. "Of course we want the Americans to leave, but if they do, it will be a great disaster for us."

    In a barbershop in the capital's Karrada district Tuesday afternoon, a group of men discussed some of the paradoxical Iraqi opinions of coalition troops. They recognized that the departure of U.S.-led forces could trigger more violence, and yet they harbored deep-rooted anger toward the Americans.

    "I really don't like the Americans who patrol on the street. They should all go away," said a young boy as he swept up hair on the shop's floor. "But I do like the one who guards my church. He should stay!"

    Sitting in a neon-orange chair as he waited for a haircut, Firas Adnan, a 27-year-old music student, said: "I really don't know what I want. If the Americans leave right now, there is going to be a massacre in Iraq. But if they don't leave, there will be more problems. From my point of view, though, it would be better for them to go out today than tomorrow."

    He paused for a moment, then said, "We just want to go back and live like we did before."


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721_pf.html
     
  2. real_egal

    real_egal Contributing Member

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    Since when what Iraqis want has mattered? Since when what the world think has mattered?
     
  3. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    since when did our own intelligence services' thoughts mattered? or our own military, or majority of the US?
     
  4. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Contributing Member

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    Funny but true.
     
  5. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    The Iraqis made the mistake of building their homes above oil. Play fair, live in peace, or die because Cheney's oil buddies aren't letting the military leave.
     
  6. canoner2002

    canoner2002 Contributing Member

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    Bush doesn't want to leave because Iraqis are more against US than they were in Saddam's time. The pro-US government we helped them "elected" will crumble as soon as we leave. Fundamentalists will take over and Iraq will turn into another Iran. Big oil companies will loss a lot, and Republicans will get KILLED in 2008. Right now, Bush is just putting off the inevitable, and hope something happens between now and 2008 which will give GOP a chance.

    All these don't surprise me at all. It shouldn't surprised anyone who is capable of thinking logically. As a matter of fact, I could think with my toes and see all these even before 2003.
     
  7. vwiggin

    vwiggin Contributing Member

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    I'm sure I'm not the first one to suggest this, but why not just fortify a few key areas of Iraq and then withdraw most of our troops to Afgahnistan and Kurdistan .

    Let's go into Afghanistan and clean that place up once and for all. The world is much more supportive of our campaign there than our "mission" in Iraq.

    Will this withdraw be seen as an act of weakness? Probably by some it will be.

    However, it may also signal to Iran, Korea, and Syria that the United States is regrouping its troops so that we can get ready to take down another country if necessary.

    The one drawback of this plan is that once we leave, Iraq's politics will very likely be dominated by religious extremists. But hey, that will probably happen anyway, even if the US had stayed we would've only briefly delayed Iraq's march towards theocracy.

    With troops in Kurdistan and Afghanistan, and strategic bases in Iraq, we can still respond quickly to any serious emerging threats in Iraq (i.e. WMD type of stuff). Most likely, what will happen is that Iraq will start dividing itself up, where there will be pockets of area friendly to the US and receptive to democracy (like Kurdistan), and other areas where warlords and theocrats will rule. Again, this will happen regardless of whether we stayed in Iraq or not, staying there just delays this inevitable progression at the cost of American lives, so we might as well save some American lives and let this civil war division shake itself out.

    Once the fractions settle down into predictable borders, then we can start rethinking our strategy. Perhaps some of the newly created factions can be reasoned with, and maybe some of them have to be completedly wiped out. With a smaller US presence, the UN may also be more willing to help out with peacekeeping duties.

    I know it sounds callous to say that the Iraqi people have to work this stuff out themselves, especially after we stirred up this honets nest to begin with. But I truly believe that the factional fighting will be even WORSE if we stay, because our presence will incite greater violence and encourage the participation of non-Iraqi terrorists.
     
    #7 vwiggin, Sep 27, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2006
  8. canoner2002

    canoner2002 Contributing Member

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    Democrats should take this poll to Bush and ask where he sees we are going. Iraq is turning into another Iran, sooner or later. However bad Saddam was, he is gonna look so much more friendly compared to a government run by fundamental extremists.
     
  9. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    You're wrong giff! Iraqis don't want us to leave. They want to attack us...


    Poll: Iraqis back attacks on U.S. troops

    By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer
    Wed Sep 27, 6:28 PM ET

    WASHINGTON - About six in 10 Iraqis say they approve of attacks on U.S.-led forces, and slightly more than that want their government to ask U.S. troops to leave within a year, a poll finds.

    The Iraqis also have negative views of Osama bin Laden, according to the early September poll of 1,150.

    The poll, done for University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes, found:

    _Almost four in five Iraqis say the U.S. military force in Iraq provokes more violence than it prevents.

    _About 61 percent approved of the attacks — up from 47 percent in January. A solid majority of Shiite and Sunni Arabs approved of the attacks, according to the poll.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060927...PnR0r2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OTB1amhuBHNlYwNtdHM-
     
  10. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Contributing Member

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    May I suggest that we put them in prison until they change their minds?

    Perhaps they should stop listening to propoganda and listen to the mind purifying voice of God that is our US media?

    Iraqis are obviously ignorant, they fail to see that the US has the most experience of forming a democracy, we have been successful since 1776. We are offering free help to them to democratize and freedomize their society, heck we are building a mcdonalds there!!! and all they want is us out! Talk about ungratefulness. Plus, we kill the terrorists for them and do it with a bomb that destroys everything in a 30 foot radius to be sure, and they complain about our "collateral damage" instead of praising our efficiency. Such uncivilized brutes!
     
  11. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Wow, what can I say about this post.

    Free help?
    Who exactly called out for the help? Countries usually like to solve their own problems ... it's like a person going into to another families house and telling them that their kids should not be out late at night.

    You don't push democracy on a society...do they even want a democracy?...is democracy ready to be excepted in a society as such?

    Kill the terrorists
    We’ve attracted terrorists and those who view the U.S as invaders to come to Iraq and fight, why do the Iraqi people deserve the honor of a war in their backyard?

    We brought instability, there was no real plan, hell Mr.President didn’t even know about the Sunni-Shia relationship, how exactly did we help these people?
     
  12. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    I thought he was joking, and moking pro-war people. Atleast that is what I hoped. I mean nobody can have such bizare idea's(besides Bush ofcourse).

    nyquil82 very funny post :D :D
     
  13. Mr. Brightside

    Mr. Brightside Contributing Member

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    I think building Gitmo II will solve the problem. Scare them with life imprisonment and angry dogs.
     
  14. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Contributing Member

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    "Why would you want to help the terrorists in anyway, unless you are on their side?"

    -quoted from someone in the D&D who shall remain nameless.
     

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