No, I understood it just fine. The misunderstanding occurs b/c you assume that the OP's friend wants to pursue further education beyond a bachelor's degree. The OP's friend can be the most motivated person in the world, but if he/she only has a bachelor's in EU, then he/she is already starting out at a disadvantage.
I would definitely confront him as to why he hasn't tried to convince you to broaden your mind. The one given in the future workforce is that you are going to have to think and communicate. A solid Liberal Arts degree goes a long way towards that goal. Being able to write and speak well, understanding different cultures, being open to new ideas, drawing conclusions from disparate facts, synthesizing ideas from streams of information... that's where we're at/going. Hell, just the ability to do decent research is a skill set that seems to be quickly disappearing. Being able to distinguish between fact and truthiness will be critical as more and more people fall prey to Internet crap and newsy entertainment. Trade school majors teach you process and lock you into a way of thinking and approaching the world when society is changing incredibly fast and demands a flexible mind. You will change jobs/careers more than once in your lifetime. The more you understand the world, the more you are comfortable with change, the more confidence you have to deal with that change, the more you can rely on your own intelligence and knowledge to help you through those transitions, the better off you will be.
If they are in dept a 100K from college, it may ruin their life. There is nothing wrong with studying about Europe. Its stupid to pay a lot of money to college to teach it to you.
This. Unless your job goal requires specific skills and educational requirements, like accounting, or nuclear physics (severely limiting your future job choices), a broad-based Liberal Arts degree presents a much broader spectrum of opportunity. I have a Public Administration degree and work in state government, but I'm curious what percentage of college grads work directly within their field of degree.
You ridiculed the idea of him being super successful with that major, i just pointed out that it's possible to be successful with that major. And an ES major is necessarily at a disadvantage. It's all relative and it depends what they apply for and want to do. Sure, an accounting job wont care about an ES major but a marketing firm might. Yes, he wont be a partner at a marketing firm or a financial analyst after he graduates, but that's not what he seemingly wants...how is that a disadvantage than? So many people put stock in a major and about how "it looks" or how it will be an "advantage/disadvantage"...possibly because they always hear their dad threaten them to take something "serious". At the end of the day it really doesnt matter. If you do what you love and love what you do, you will be successful. The world needs all types.
Tell him to study what he is passionate about. There is nothing really worse in life than to be stuck doing something you really don't like or care about.
Rimrocker said it much better than I did, but I remember a really good illustration of the MBA mindset vs. the liberal arts mindset from when I was in grad school (still in Chinese history). I was working with an Anthropology professor primarily doing research assistant / teaching assistant work, and we were tasked by the business school with something that we agreed was just silly: giving recent MBA grads who were China-bound to work in a firm over there a crash-course on Chinese business etiquette. The assumption on the part of the business school was that in one day, they could learn enough to step right into a supervisory role - and the arrogance (and ignorance of other cultures) among some of the MBA students was clearly not going to make that work.
I didn't ridicule anything. I just pointed out that the demand for that degree is questionable. And all you did was point out that an ES degree can be successful when its coupled with a law degree. That's like saying that you can be super rich if you get an ES degree and win the lottery. It's at a disadvantage b/c of the availability of jobs. There are always accounting jobs available. A marketing firm might care about an ES degree, but they'd probably value a marketing degree more. And I know someone who graduated c*m laude with a marketing degree from UH last May that's been unable to find an entry level job.
There are always jobs in any field. I've heard this over and over and never quite understood it. A marketing firm wanting to target the europe market would like for the person to have knowledge of europe...something a generic marketing degree wont have. I know a CPA with an MBA that hasnt been able to find a job for the last 9 months. Anecdotal. Let the guy do what he enjoys and if he enjoys, works hard, is semi likable and is dedicated he will be successful. It isnt always about choosing the "safe" major. And i say all this as an MBA who works in accounting and finance while starting the CPA soon.
This is classic. Listen to this guy. He's got's smart's and's know's what's he's talking's about's. .......... As for the original post...I agree with others here. Life is too short to do something that you don't like. And your buddy can always go on to get a masters, phd, md, or law degree if money is important.
If there two hundred people equally motivated, half choses finance/accounting and other half choses European Studies, what do you think the difference in their average and median and income would be? If there are one hundred less motivated people with finance/accounting degree and the one hundred motivated people with European studies, what do you think the difference in their average and median income still would be? I think that's what the other posters are arguing about. That said, other posters have also mentioned, there are post graduate degrees. If he is truly smart and motivated and finds trouble in the job market because of his BA of choice, he can try to go to grad school for a MBA or Law degree, and that should help his career a little more. However, if he's going to be in debt, and looking to be $100K plus because of it, talk him out of it (unless it's Harvard or something, because it puts him a leg up in post graduate work).
Why do you assume other majors don't help you achieve this goal? Most good business programs give you a good mix of quantitative, strategic thinking and communication. I agree with everything you're saying regarding the changing work force, but I believe that those skills are not going to be harder to develop by those from a technical/quantitative background (and in a lot of cases from it). On the other hand, if you have a technical/quantitative background, there are definitely jobs you can do that an art history major would not.
the answer is 4. Spoiler if you a want to get into a debate over a general average where differences in salary varies in your first job by $10k or so count me out. For the OP to say his major that he has practically no chance of getting a decent job is simply not right. And again, y'all seem to be focused on the money aspect ( since you're accounting /finance guys). That's not what this is about. There is a very good chance that the guy gets a "decent job" IF, he is relatively smart, works hard and is dedicated. SO when you guys picked your major, your sole motivation was, what will get me a decent paying job after i graduate? Rather than choose a major because you actually liked it? I couldnt think of a worse way to start a career. it's always easy to tell the accounting/finance majors because for whatever reason they think that's all there is in the world.
Not sure of the veracity of the allegation, as it is not footnoted, but I found it interesting. Here is an excerpt: "A sobering statistic: Within ten years, seventy percent of college graduates will not be working in a field related to their major..." http://factoidz.com/why-most-college-graduates-end-up-working-in-a-different-field-than-their-major/
That last sentence - certainly not true in my case. I went through my entire academic career doing my absolute best to avoid quantitative studies as much as possible, I finished grad school in 2001, and I'm fairly sure I'd never opened an Excel spreadsheet until 2005. I now pretty much live in a statistical market analytics role. My success in that environment has more to do with my aptitude for quantitative "stuff" and my commitment to learning on my own time what I need to do to get the job done right. What sets me apart from many of the other people in this type of role is that I'm a very good writer and an effective communicator. I'd argue that it might very well be harder to become a good writer/communicator studying and practicing on your own than it is to become proficient in either technical or quantitative roles through self-directed study.
After both graduating and working, I do find what both of you guys to be true. If you check back to my first post, you'll see at the end, I said do what you want, because you can always go back to get the necessary qualifications if your original BA is hindering you. That is not what I'm arguing. What I don't like the notion that "hey, what your major in have no impact on employment opportunities". If you get a certain "trade school degrees" (I find that term offensive actually), it will help you land a job. On the flip side, not every job you love will reward you monetarily. My advice wasn't don't follow what you love, but make be aware of your ROI. If you're going to do European History, I would recommend doing at your state college instead of some liberal arts college out of state that have a top 10 European Studies program (unless it's Ivy level, where the name of the school carries weight/hype). Lastly, I was an Engineering major that wanted to do philosophy :grin:, still regret not doing it.
Of course there are jobs. But the question is, how many jobs are there? My guess is that there are not many jobs which call for a degree in ES. And as a result, you need to be the cream of the crop in order to get it. Disagree. A marketing firm wanting to target Europe would hire people in Europe. Or maybe a person with a major in marketing and a minor in international studies. In any case, I doubt a marketing firm would hire anyone with absolutely no background in marketing. Then he's setting his standards too high or has no experience. If he were willing to work for 45k, he could find a job tomorrow.
There are lots of good points in this thread, though most of the back-and-forth arguing is due to philosophical approaches regarding the path to happiness. For some people, it's just money. For others, it's interest in their field. For some, those two things go hand-in-hand while others make a sharp distinction between the two. It's "money doesn't buy happiness" vs. "yes it does" vs. "no, but it helps." It sounds as though the OP's friend falls into the latter two categories. To the OP: if you're friend isn't doing something that he's interested in, he'll never be happy. My advice: let him live his own life and for god's sake, don't make him feel stupid for his choices. Maybe his goal is to teach European History or something. Teaching might not make him rich, but it can certainly be both noble and fulfilling.
Things like this are refined in the university setting and continue on as a person lives their life. A HS student should have grasp on it, yes, but if you think an adolescent should have/will have this skill set mastered by the time they finish high school is laughable.
