NBA Career PER Leaders - T-Mac #11, Higher Than Dream

Why is Yao not on the list? he's always mentioned as one of the leaders in the current standing of PER. How did Brad Miller (#91) has better stats than Yao?

 

Kareem, Russell, and Wilt are hurt by the league not keeping blocks for all or part of their careers. Wilt and Russell especially were way above average in blocks so taking that consideration out hurts their final scores.

 

He was a horrid offensive player with HOF'ers besides him. Thats all PER reveals, the idiocy you speak of is the truth

And on topic, remember Dream played several years past his prime and Tmac had those insane years in Orlando. Its not so far fetched to say at the pace Tmac was before the spasms he couldve easily been the next MJ. Now while he may not be the scorer he used to be, you can see the leadership in him. Hes become a greater player, but if he never had those spasms he couldve been doing what Kobes been doing BUT winning while doing it.

 

Very true but I remember someone did had an adjusted PER rating of Russel and Wilt giving them an average of 4 blocks per game (ballpark figure), I just cant remember how much that helped their rating

 

blocks don't affect PER very much. as best i can calculate based on last year's stats, every block per 48 minutes would only affect your PER by about .16. so even if they averaged 8 blocks per 48 minutes (and they played most all of the game so basically 8 per game) that's only about 1.3. and the league value of possession was lower back then and i'm guessing b/c the pace was so much faster the unadjusted PER (not normalized to 15) was higher, and both of those factors would minimize the effect. so even giving them the 8 per game some people claim, they might gain a little over 1 point.


and that's one problem hollinger and everyone admits PER has, that it doesn't really measure defense at all.

 

Um Stockton was a beyond amazing PG, as hard as it is for me to admit it. Assist and Steal leader of all time, says alot. He was a Jazz though thats only reason he deserves to be taken off list all together.

 

cmon bill russell played for one of the best TEAMS of all time. it wasn't just him. he was not that good offensively. he would be a glorified version of dennis rodman in our time.

15 points on 43% shooting for a big man? again, he's great b/c he won 11 rings, but he's not a great individual player, more of team player.

jordan is the best individual AND team player.

 

I'm willing to bet that Dream's PER a slight hit over the last 5 years of his career. He was nowhere near the Hakeem we remember carrying this team on his back.

 

I don't know why people are surprised, McGrady is one of the best all-around players to ever play the game from a pure statistical standpoint. The guy just fills up the stats sheet in every imaginable category; he's a 'five-tool' player as far as NBAers are concerned.

No one ever questioned his great abilities, and people rarely if ever argue his 'numbers' because they know it's a losing battle. Instead, the only thing some people question about him is 'intangibles' or other subjective things such as leadership, being a 'winner' and other things.

The guy is an incredible talent, it's silly how good he is.

 

Dream had a shorter 'prime' than some of the all-time greats. That's why I think, despite his talent, you simply can't overlook guys like Kareem or even Shaq who had a longer prime, IMO, than Dream did. But mostly Kareem.

 

yea, dream's prime years were some of the best ever, too bad it's not as long as say MJ

 

They were also likely above average in turnovers, which weren't kept either. And no three pointers back then also increased their value on offense relative to the guards in their era.

 

Yao's career PER is 22.7, which would put him at 21st or 22nd on the list. I guess he's not on the list yet because he hasn't played enough minutes in his career to qualify. Same reason LeBron (24.2 career PER) and Wade (23.3 career PER) aren't on there.

 

What's really wrong with this category is it's damn name. It should be Scoring Efficiency , not Player Efficiency. Player Efficiency should include all statistical categories in some kind of whole.

 

Just curious. Who is #7 Neil Johnston?

 

That's what it does, essentially.

Calculating PER



Scoring efficiency can be expressed as TS%:

TS% = points / [2 * ( fga + .44*fta) ]

 

A Hall of Fame center.

 

Allstar center from the 50s:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsne01.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Johnston

 

that's a really great observation.

anyway - problem with stats is they don't take into account things like forcing an opponent to miss a shot. Or really high basketball IQ.

There's a guide, but not an ultimate measure.

You only had to watch Hakeem play and Robinson play to know who was the superior player. Anyone who would choose Robinson over Hakeem well....I think history says enough about it.

 

Well, I figured since everyone was justifying its low placement of Russell based on his lack or scoring, it was mostly just an offensive category. Is it because blocks aren't included for him that Russell's so low then? Or do defensive contributions simply not count for as much?