NBA ALL Greatest Teams Bracket - Vote for the Rockets

At least they didn't pile on and add Wilt to the Lakers.

 

well if we keep this thread alive we might be able to vote the rockets to the top.

 

Lakers win hands down.

 

Whoever compiled the Rockets roster made a huge mistake. They included Ralph Sampson based on his '85 season, for which they have him with a 27.4 PER. This is a TYPO. His PER that season was actually 17.4. Yao has bested that number every season he's been in the league.

Based on their own criteria, Yao should have been on the roster. I don't know how that could have slipped past them.

 

Whoever compiled the Rockets roster made a huge mistake. They included Ralph Sampson based on his '85 season, for which they have him with a 27.4 PER. This is a TYPO. His PER that season was actually 17.4. Yao has bested that number every season he's been in the league.

Based on their own criteria, Yao should have been on the roster. I don't know how that could have slipped past them.

If Yao was on the roster instead of Sampson, the Rockets probably would have gotten more votes. I mean, Hakeem, Moses, and Yao on the same team? We'd be devestating inside.

 

What the hell were they thinking ranking Spurs as a #2 seed and Rockets at #3?!??!!

tony parker and ginobili justify that?!?!?? BRUCE BOWEN?!?!!?


Calvin Murphy > Tony Parker (and the Murph would kick his ass in a street fight too)
The Dream > Duncan (no comment required)
Moses Malone > The Admiral (a Rock vs. a Stick......u figure it out)
Mike Newlan = Alvin Robertson (whatever)
Cassel > Ginobili (Sam is a 6ft alien, Gino is a 6ft bunny...who would u put ur money on?)
T-Mac = Gervin (maybe Gervin has a slight edge)
Elvin Hayes > Larry Kenon (Larry, just call timeout)
Sampson > Billy "The Whopper" (see the reason they put the whopper on there in the first place)
Rudy T > Mike Mitchel (Don't know mitchel)
Mike Newlin = Bruce Bowen (whatever, their playing time would be 2 min anyway)

 

I was wondering how Sampson's PER was higher than Hakeems.

Anyway - durvasa where did you get Sampson's 1985 PER # from, just curious.

And BTW, Hakeem, Moses, Yao, Sampson, Hayes - it's just devestating anyway you slice it.

 

Wow, the Lakers team is stupidly stacked.

Lakers over Celtics in the final, but we can always spam voting I guess....

 

From a teamwork standpoint, Sampson is a better choice than Yao. Sampson, when he was still healthy, was better at outside shooting (slightly), passing, getting out on the break, and making an outlet pass. Yao's main skill is his high FG% when posted up, but that's redundant when you have Dream in the lineup.

Our front court is clearly superior to the Spurs. Dream > Robinson, Moses > Duncan, Hayes and Gervin are close. It's tempting to rate Duncan ahead of Moses, but at his prime, Moses absolutely dominated the league in much the way Shaq did 5 years ago. Duncan is a great team player, but he has never put up those sorts of numbers. Don't underestimate Hayes either. The dude's rebounding and scoring numbers were better than Dream.

Our backcourt is so-so. If you gave us Clyde, we'd almost be there with the Lakers. TMac can hold his own with most of the greats, and we're adequate at the PG position with Murph/Kenny/Cassell.

I think we're clearly better than any teams except Boston and LA. Chicago is overrated. Honestly, Jordan, and maybe Pippen, are their only players even close to being in the class of our front court guys. I'd take us over Philly, too. If Bill Russell was able to give Wilt fits, I have no doubt Hakeem would hurt him even worse. Moses > Barkley, and Hayes is pretty close to Dr. J. Their backcourt is not even as good as ours.

 

No offense but you get far too hung up on stats. I love Yao, but there's no way you leave a healthy Ralph off that team. Nor is there any way you leave Moses off.

I know you love these "based on specific criteria" arguments, but Ralph brought more to the table even than Yao's breakout second-half season last year.

Oh, and for anyone who really wants to argue Yao should be included on this team really needs to consider what Dream would be screaming "Yao, man get the hell out of the way".

 

It's not durvasa's "specific criteria", but ESPN's. They're putting the team together based on individual season, and putting an emphasis on PER.

And if we're talking about how the player's skills and talents would actually translate on the court, I think you're shortchanging Yao. I think Dream could have worked with another low post scorer. It wasn't that smooth with him and Barkley, but Yao can set up on either block, so he at least they wouldn't be racing to get to the left block first. Just have them set up on both sides of the lane, and swing it from side to side to enter it.

And although Yao hasn't played in the high post much in his career, on an all-franchise team like this, you'd have to be insane not to give Yao touches at the high post with Dream in the low post. I mean a high/low game with a 7'6" dude with passing skills and vision, and a low post demon with a dozen post moves. They'd be pretty unstoppable.

And like I said, playing next to a guy with as much sheer mass as Yao would benefit Dream a lot on defense. He was the master at coming out of nowhere for the block. Well I'd have to think it's easier to come out of nowhere if the opponents have to go around a 7'6", 300 lber.

 

I know you have to had seen Ralph play.. right? Everything you're describing is Ralph! Ralph's passing skills were pretty sweet, and he had amazing handles for a 7-foot-plus guy. Dream was benefited a great deal by having Ralph by his side for precisely the reasons you're mentioning...he came from the weak side, out of "nowhere" and got blocks.

Yao has been good, but Ralph's mobility, passing ability, post-defense/shot-blocking ability, and ball-handling are all above Yao's, imo. Ralph also got out on the break and was great at starting the break with the outlet. The only thing Yao has on Ralph is a few inches and weight--and the inches are negated in jumping ability and athleticism. Yao has more post moves, but Ralph has more face-up moves, so they kinda cancel.

 

I knew it was ESPN's criteria but I felt durvasa was making an argument that I completely disagree with. No doubt ESPN might have "bent" that stated criteria, but that's fairly typical of the way they crank out stories.

First let me say thanks for being the first person here to say I'm short-changing Yao. It's a relief.

But where you and I disagree is that I believe Yao's body mass is underrated in it's affect defensively, but it's also a problem for everyone Yao's played with offensively in terms of penetration.

With Moses, Ralph and Dream playing on the same team it's just pretty simple. If someone misses than the other one (on the court) has to get the ball. That still isn't Yao's strong suit, but believe it or not I think that Rockets team hammers LA on the boards, and in blocks. And is just meaner.

To me if you remove Ralph and insert Yao you give up any possible advantage we have. Oh, and that Boston team could run, but do you really want to put Yao against that sci-fi Laker team that would run every team in history out of the building other than maybe, just maybe the '86 Rox?

 

I'm not saying that you got to bump Ralph for Yao. I just feel that you got to find a way to put Yao on the team. Maybe Yao for Elvin or Rudy. And another thing, why isn't Horry on this team.

I mean the perfect solution would be if they made the roster a full 12 man team, and added Yao and Horry.

 

I'm fine with that but I still don't even agree with Yao over E. I'm glad Rudy's on that team, but the really esoteric argument is Horry not being there. I mean, the guy does what he does when he does it, and we know what he needs. If you give that guy 3 HOF big men on the same team he just might be a HOFer himself, and I wouldn't bet against him in that scenario.

Love the offseason.

 

www.basketball-reference.com (note the dash)

I'm not saying Yao being on the team would make it better. That's debatable. What I said was (a) based on their criteria, Sampson only gets in ahead of Yao because of a typo, and (b) the Rockets would get more votes if they had Yao on there instead of Sampson.

In real life, maybe Sampson is a better choice. But if the winner is chosen by public voting, Yao is obviously a better choice. A lot of voters probably never heard of Ralph Sampson.

 

Interesting - just looking at PER's it looks like Ralph's Best year was his rookie year, back when he was the Man on a horrible team (not unllike Yao's PER this year).

This isn't a commentary on him or Yao, but one on PER. I would have thought PER, being an efficiency -based rating, woudl stay similar when a palyer takes a reduced role (I.e. akeem coming in) even though aggregate numbers will drop, so this is a little surprising.

With that in mind, I would expect to see Yao's PER decrease a bit if T-mac comes back.

 

PER estimates both per-possession productivity and efficiency. If a player takes a reduced role in the offense while not increasing efficiency, his PER will reduce.

If we just look at offensive efficiency and ignore amount of involvement, Ralph declined from Year One to Year Two. This is captured by Offensive Rating (ORting). Generally speaking, offensive efficiency should go up when a player takes a lesser role, but it doesn't always happen that way.

 

This was easy.

 

i cant figure out how to vote..