Stockton played in a tougher era (Bulls, Rockets, Supersonics, and Lakers) with deep pool of talented point guards, anti-perimeter offense, more flexible playing (could be just as effective in any offensive system, while being an elite defender), and more durable. Nash in a pool of Payton, Kidd, Van Exel, Price, P.Hardaway, T.Hardaway, Cassell, and K.J in a center/MJ dominated league. Stockton, sadly wins.
Nash was a rookie in 1996, so he played against Payton, Kidd and Cassell at a high level. They were each on All-NBA teams together, so I'm not understanding that distinction. Yes, Nash and Payton were All-NBA in the same year together. The 2000 decade is the decade of the PGs? Not 1990s Van Exel? bwahaha. Maybe you should have said Richmond Go back and look at the All-NBA teams of the 90's vs 00's and tell me which decade was the decade of the PGs. These guys were each All-NBA between 2000-2010, and Nash went to the WCF in 2010, so we'll stop there. Payton AI Billups Kidd Cassell Nash Parker Baron Davis Gilbert Arenas CP3 Rose Westbrook Deron
eh, AC Green wasn't a starter for many of his games, and averaged just over 28 mpg for his career. still an amazing accomplishment, but more Cal Ripken Jr. or Brett Favre than Lou Gehrig or Jim Brown. Stockton had 17 seasons of perfect attendance, only missing 4 games in 89-90 and the first 18 games (microfracture surgery) in 97-98. Karl Malone had something similar as well.
A.I. was a combo guard...I should pretend Eric Snow, Willie Green, and Lou Williams didn't exist. He actually STARTED in games, during the 90s, as well. You are showing basketball ignorance laughing at Van Exel, who was an all-star and clutch player. Even as bench player past his prime, he unexpectedly carried 03 Mavs through the playoffs. 1990s featured a good group of point guards Payton (in his prime, not the declining version) Stockton K.J. Penny Tim Hardaway Price Mookie Blaylock Kenny Anderson Terrell Brandon Magic (briefly) Mark Jackson.
currently, the NBA is watered down at every position besides PG, but that position only looks so strong because the others are so weak. in '96 Stockton played against Magic (came out of retirement, although as a PF), Mark Price, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Gary Payton, Penny Hardaway (a PG his first 3 years), Rod Strickland, Jason Kidd, Terry Porter, Terrell Brandon, Ron Harper, Mark Jackson, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell :grin: . most of those players except Price, Magic, Porter, Smith, Cassell and maybe KJ and Kidd were in their primes or near their primes that year. Nash would come the next year along with Iverson (a PG his first couple years). Chauncy Billups, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis, Andre Miller and Steve Francis :grin: a couple years later and finally Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas. just a few years earlier, Stockton played against prime Magic, Isiah Thomas, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Maurice Cheeks, Sidney Moncrief, Gus Williams and World B. Free. he just missed out on Walt Frazier, Pistol Pete, Tiny Archibald and Earl Monroe (if they had only played for 19 seasons!). Oscar Robertson and Bob Cousy are the only greats Stockton had no chance of playing against historically. but Stockton played well against great and truly great PGs his entire career, he himself being one of the truly great (top 5 hands down and probably top 3 all time). no one today is top 10 and that includes Chris Paul.
At the end of the day; Kenny Smith, Steve Kerr, Fisher, and Ron Harper have multiple rings and only Stockton has sniffed the finals. Investing a lot of money in the point guard position is a recipe for mediocrity unless that PG is Magic or Zeke.
And so was Nick Van Exel in 03 As the shooting guard. Nash ran the point for that team. At best, Van Exel got 10mpg as PG on that team. That was clearly Nash's team as playmaker Who is showing basketball ignorance by saying Van Exel was a PG for the 03 Mavs Did you just look that up and saw Van Exel leading the Mavs in scoring in the playoffs and assumed he was their PG?
You say this, then include Magic in your list. I see how you debate now. Payton was a four time All-star and three All-NBAs in the 2000s. He had his best scoring years and statistically best years overall in the 2000s. He had just turned 30. Stockton and Nash were both in their primes in their 30s too. Payton was not in decline when Nash was All-NBA. Given it up. You cannot say Nash did not have to face an All-NBA Payton, Kidd or Cassell like you proclaimed. That's just a fact that you are denying. And I'm not even counting Nash facing Payton in the '90s You are merely back tracking, and throwing 2nd tier players into the discussion, when I only mentioned All-NBA. You want me to expand my list to any All Star?
I agree. Was just answering a question about AC. Here's another one for the durability list. Wilt averaged 48 minutes per game over the course of three seasons.
This one is close....very very close. Stockton had the mail man, one of the best finishers in the history which kind of inflated his assists, but he was a very sneaky defender for someone that wasnt very athletic. Hard to pick, none of them having won championships....but just because Stockton being the leader in assists and steals of all time, then I would go Stockton. Could poll tho
Stockton had Malone and that was it. i guess he also had Horny who was just an average but undersized starting shooting guard that year. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1996.html go see the table/chart where it says per game. only Stockton, Malone and Hornacek played starter minutes (30+ minutes and Horny barely 31). the rest of the team outside of maybe Bryan Russell had no business starting an NBA game. outside of Malone they were all terrible rebounders. it was paramount that they didn't take bad shots or give up easy ones because they weren't getting the ball back after a miss; Stockton had a lot to do with that. this team took a far superior talented Seattle team to game seven in the WCF. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1997.html the next year, Bryan Russell, another average small forward, but decent defender, finally got out of the doghouse and played starter minutes (31 mpg), putting up decent numbers (thanks to Stockton?). also Ostertag, a below average center, but decent rebounder, played significantly more minutes (23 mpg). but otherwise, this was the same exact team, and they went all the way to game 6 of the Finals which were decided by only 4 points between the teams. probably the closest Finals by overall point differential in recent times. i think 1969 might have been closer. if Jordan doesn't have that flu game (and Rodman was playing with a sprained MCL that was only getting worse), they probably lose. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1998.html let's do this again. same players, same story. this time the Jazz get home court advantage in the playoffs despite Stockton missing the first 18 games of the season (the Jazz went 11-7 without him but a favorable schedule and 51-13 with him the rest of the way). they take the Bulls to game 6 where Jordan carries the team on his back after Pippen busted his own back and a few controversial calls that went to the Bulls favor and some more Jordan brilliance and will, the Jazz lose again. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1999.html Jordan retires and the Jazz don't improve their team yet again and forget that their horses are getting old. you know what happens... talk about making your teammates better. Stockton (along with Malone and Sloan) did it far better than most including Nash, who also did it very well. should i feel bad for Utah? it seemed all they needed was one more decent player (like a Rodman or even just a Kukoc or something) to get them over the hump. instead, they just used the same players and tried harder . insanity...
Wilt has the most impressive and likely unbreakable records, including never fouling out of a game; well technically he got kicked out once for two technical fouls in that amazing 1962 season.
