let Milwaukee play GS 3 or 4 times, Denver 3 or 4 times, OKC 3 or 4 times, Portland 3 or 4 times, take all these WC road trips, etc, and we’ll see what their record against the West would be then... the WC is much tougher, that’s just facts Bucks aren’t playing GS 1 night, then maybe Denver the next, then oh look, u got Portland 2 games later, and then OKC and maybe GS again a week after that or a competitive team like SAC or LAC...the West has far more competitive teams a 67% winning percentage against the West is a 54 win pace, and again, that’s while being healthy pretty much all year and only having to play WC playoff teams just twice each...the Rockets are on a 54 win pace against the East while being decimated by injuries and only getting to play the tanking/plethora of below average-mediocre teams twice each Coach Bud is what has propelled the Bucks...Harden is MVP
Bucks record against the West is 14-7, which is better than the Rockets record against the West. Just to drive this home to an inarguable level, Bucks records against the WEST is identical to the Rockets record against the EAST. The Bucks are #3 offense and #1 defense. We were not that good last season. In fact, some dude on another forum did some digging and discovered that there are only 13 teams EVER who have had a higher SRS (i.e. net rating factoring in opponent strength, which reflects conference) than this season's Milwaukee Bucks, and 10 of those 13 teams have won the title. He is having an insane season team-wise, defensively, offensively and in terms of putting a team on his shoulders. Every MVP candidate is playing in a system that is working for them and a coach that is great at getting wins. You don't have to diss Giannis to make a case for Harden. The reason Harden will win is because he is having a historic season and it's directly correlated to contender-level wins with a mediocre and oft-injured supporting cast. As was pointed out earlier, he is on the verge of having the highest scoring average in 60 years, correlated with wins, on an efficiency that many All-Stars dream of achieving on half the shot attempts. Celebrate buddy.
It feels like I time traveled to an OKC Thunder fan forum, and am currently reading a thread about how Westbrook is the MVP and it shouldn't even be a discussion. I know every fan base is full of homers, but this is just disgusting. You guys are no better than those losers from 2017. Sin verguenza smh
It’s clearly not the same. Westbrook had a healthy team. How many games has Capela, CP3 or Eric been hurt. Also we had the whole Melo ordeal and trying to integrate new guys. Don’t forget about MCW and the times we had to play Hartenstein. So it’s been a rollercoaster and the only consistency has been Harden. He has play great and that’s what it’s all about. Most valuable player in the league meaning the guy that helps their team succeed and the guy is playing above everyone on the league. He has carried this team most games, he has won us some pretty good ones. We could have been in Lakers territory or memphis if it wasn’t for Harden. Even this past 5 game winning streak we haven’t had everyone available. We could finish 3 or so but we could probably be in 14th seed if Harden hadn’t activated his MVP HardeN mode. Yet still you are comparing him to Westbrook stat padded MVP triple double season? Get a clue y piensa antes de hablar dude. Btw Even with this season’s inconsistency, we could at 1 or 2 seed right now if we hadn’t gotten screw by the refs. Especially at the start of the season and if we had won the games that were “easy” or the games that we let slipped. But that’s a result of not having any rhythm, dealing with injuries, having no bench, having Melo and having the refs against you.
When will people understand that the problem with Westbrook winning back in 2017 is because he got it for averaging 2 more rebounds than Harden while winning 8 less games? Russ: 31, 10, and 10...led a team full of role players to 47 wins and the 6th seed Harden: 29, 8, and 11...led a team full of role players to 55 wins and the 3rd seed/3rd overall record in the NBA Russ didn’t deserve it because Harden pretty much did the same thing he did minus 2 uncontested boards...Harden had pretty much the same stats argument, and he definitely had the wins argument over Russ this year, no one is even close to what Harden is doing, and the Rockets are a game out of 3rd in the West even tho they were 14th at 1 point yet people want to compare this to Russ winning it...man, stop...
The "Let's robotically follow tradition" crowd don't even need opinions. "Best player on best team" can be picked by computer.
this is nothing new to me i heard it from @malakas already however citing the rockets record vs east is also misleading because rockets (one team small sample size) can be and probably are an outlier due to many reasons. heres one team sample size for you bucks record vs west is 16 - 8 bucks record vs east is 32 - 8 they incurred the same number of losses in the west in roughly 2 X less the games end of discussion the other important thing amongst many you dont take into account is how much tougher is to play tough opponents night in and night out (western teams) vs having to face a tough opponent once in a while (bucks) when you can plan and prepare and rest players, avoid injuries and overload etc...the effect of this is seemingly subtle but cumulative resulting in the phenomenon that even trash teams become dangerous and easy to lose to because you are emotionally and physically drained and injured while having to face them oooops all your faulty n obscure math goes down the drain.... all the rethorics wont move the east not even close to the toughness of the west... not even close.... one is not like the other, just ask lebron if you dont believe me Spoiler: spo hardens average season would have been enough for a 60 wins record in the east particularly if he were to have all star teammates and the best coaches etc let alone the goat season he is having
It doesn't matter, the sample is enough to compare. They are better vs the West and the East. There is no conference discussion here. So even factoring in the difficulty of playing the West more often, they have a sufficient cushion to brush that excuse aside. Once again, their SRS - which takes opponent strength into consideration - is 13th all time. To make this argument about conference here is clutching at non-existent straws. Harden is not going to win on this narrative, he should not win on this narrative, and don't be irritated when voters look at the conference stats and easily come to the conclusion that Giannis and the Bucks have done more than enough to put that idea to bed. If there is ANY way to prove you can beat the West while you're in the East, Giannis has checked every box on that. Beyond this is irrational. Lebron has done nothing of the sort in his career, that's irrelevant altogether.
You are right here. The East has been one step above the G-League for a long time. Lebron walked in to the Finals last year. He can't even sniff the playoffs in the West. Look what it takes to make it in to the playoffs in the East. You can be sub .500 and be in the playoffs. The Bucks are good, but they get to feast on the G-League on a daily basis. Playing in the West night in, night out is a different beast than just taking a road trip through it every now and then. It's just not the same. If you also factor in injuries, Harden has had the toughest road of all contenders and it's not even close. His teams have been filled with scrubs filling in for injured starters all year long. We are just now ALMOST healthy. Teams have been double and triple teaming him because of it. Yet he still outperformed the other contenders. There isn't a player in the NBA who could have the Rockets in a better position than James Harden. You would only step down.
2017 Westbrook's team finished 20 games out of first place. Harden's team is currently six games out of first. Seems like a big difference.
I'm not surprised by the latest results, even though I didn't watch the games because they begun at 4:30 am. But they have been playing worse and worse aka coasting for the last 3-4 weeks so it was about time to catch up to them. Bud even had the audacity to rest ALL the guards against Utah. When you coast, play noone over 30 minutes, rest half the starters and only focus for the last 5 minutes of the games these are the results. But I don't think they even care at this point. Toronto is also half coasting so it's not like the first seed is in jeopardy any time soon.
Yall know I love Harden and more prone to be a homer. But...if Giannis wins, Im not gonna be mad. Giannis is playing great ball, has team success and is deserving of the award. If we are 4th or 5th than Harden probably wont win and I'm fine with it. If we can make it to the 3rd seed or above Harden makes it real interesting though.
Your truncation of their ppg, rpg, and apg seems to consistently favor one player over the other. Strange. Westbrook: 31.6 points -> 31 points 10.4 assists -> 10 assists 10.7 rebounds -> 10 rebounds Harden: 29.1 points -> 29 points 11.2 assists -> 11 assists 8.1 rebounds -> 8 rebounds The gap is more eye-popping if one looks at it per-36 minutes: Westbrook: 32.9 points 10.8 assists 11.1 rebounds 1.7 steals 0.4 blocks 5.6 turnovers 55.4 TS% Harden: 28.8 points 11.1 assists 8.1 rebounds 1.5 steals 0.5 blocks 5.7 turnovers 61.3 TS% I understand an argument that per-game numbers should matter more than per-minute for MVP. But the per-minute gap does capture what many Westbrook voters probably perceived when they watched them both play. Westbrook was statistically more productive while on the floor (albeit, less efficient). Harden had about 3 more minutes of court time per game, so on a per-game level the counting stats look closer. This year, the minutes per game gap is even larger. Harden gets over 4 minutes per game more time than Giannis. From a purely box-score stats perspective, Giannis is (arguably) just as impressive statistically while on the floor. Per 36: Giannis: 29.4 points 6.5 assists 13.8 rebounds 1.6 steals 1.6 blocks 4.2 turnovers 63.6 TS% Harden: 35.3 points 7.3 assists 6.3 rebounds 2.1 steals 0.7 blocks 5.1 turnovers 61.8 TS%
are you saying giannis played better basketball than harden this season? LOL team sucess? lebron also had team success last decade, where is his team now that he has finally come to the real NBA? not the church league of the east
Playing four more minutes per game seems to indicate that the Harden is more valuable to his team. . . . Giannis plays less minutes than Harden, Tucker, and Capela, but more than CP at least. Giannis' minutes/game are down 10% from last season.
If the Rockets get the third seed and Harden breaks Jordan's scoring record than he should win. Giannis will get it if those things don't happen.
Russ: 32 ppg on 24 shots...42/34/85 shooting splits...55% TS Harden: 29 ppg on 19 shots...44/35/85 shooting splits...61% TS scoring favors Harden...not even close Harden averaged more assists than Russ Russ averaged 2 more uncontested defensive boards...so the only stat that favored Russ was the most insignificant one... none of those Westbrook voters were looking at per minute or per 36 stats...I don’t recall that ever being brought up or being a topic of discussion...seems like u pulled that one out of nowhere...u give them way too much credit if u actually think that that’s what they were perceiving...get real, they saw triple double and then handed him his 1st place vote again, no one is bringing up per-minute production when talking about Giannis vs. Harden...only u to continue your Giannis defense and try to make it seem like what he’s doing is actually close to what Harden is doing night in and night out...it’s not Harden doing stuff we haven’t seen since Wilt...Giannis is doing stuff he pretty much did last year Giannis is not just as impressive as Harden statistically...stop reaching when u take into account that Harden’s statline comes from carrying a injury plagued roster missing multiple starters throughout the year while Giannis has way more help, the difference becomes even more apparent
You got nothing man, hence the retreat into a generalized statement. I clarified to the maximum degree the East is much weaker than the West. No one is buying that Giannis hasn't done enough to dispel that gap. You're going to be complaining about a conspiracy again if you don't face reality now. Giannis' case is as good as Harden's. It's legitimately close, and that's a compliment to both players.
