Richard Petruska...thats the only autograph I don't have on my memorabilia. Mabye I can reach him in the Eastern Bloc someday. Pippen was the biggest skank, Griffen has more to do with management than Pippen, AKA "one of the 50 best of all -time, LOL!"
1. Eddie Griffin 2. Scotty Quittin 3. Earl Cureton for gravytraining his way to a championship ring with us
No Rodrick Rhodes reference? I'm disappointed. Rumor was that Rudy was drunk on draft night. When asked who we should take, he slurred, "I don't know." Somehow that was misconstrued as "Rodrick Rhodes."
Barkley for me was very disappointing. I expected him to be hungry and sharp even though he was slowing down because he didn't win with the Suns. I thought he could have done better. Pippen and Taylor are also big disappointments for me.
Posts like this really show some blind hatred toward Steve Francis. We all know he is turnover prone, but averaging around 4 TOs a game does not make a career average of 20 ,6, and 6 "Net Zero". And this year he's playing even better with averages of 21, 7 and 6. He's one of TWO players this year that can claim they average that this year, the other being lebron james-- and guess what he's turnover prone also. It's very unfair to Steve to bash him for a weakness, yet ignore all the other positives he brings to the game. Yes we know he is turnover prone, but his contributions to his team FAR outweighs the negatives.
His first year, we were two games away from the Finals...eventually losing to the best team in the conference that year. AND, had Charles not missed 30 or so games due to a freak-Shawn Bradley inflicted injury, that team could have maybe had a better record than Utah. That run alone limits all dissapointment. I know we would not have gotten that far (let alone past Seattle) had we kept Horry and Cassell.
Lebron is 21, and averages 25ppg 7.2 RPG, 7.7APG, and 3.3 TO per game. If his TO don't go down in the next 2-3 years. Then, yes. They will be criticizing LJ. We don't ignore SF's positives. It's just that *you* don't understand how *much* turnovers can hamper a team from improving; as a whole. Plus, much of his contributions REQUIRED him to have the ball in his hands; he wasn't good at coming off screens. He *needs* to dribble. That's not a complete player. Turnovers effect more things than you can imagine....our defensive effort, our offensive set-plays, our ppg, our opponents ppg, our ability to play as a SINGLE unit rather than 1 guy and 4 other guys...the suck the life out of a team! Especially when most of them come from your supposed "leader!" So, I think you need to rethink your "contributions to his team FAR outweighs the negatives." Yes, 21/6/6 is *something.* But it doesn't outweigh his negatives. Don't believe me? Watch Orlando this year....
Well said DavidS. TOs can kill a team's rhythm, mix that with dribble mania and you'll have an inconsistent/frustrated team. Hell, mix that further with not bringing it Vs. bad teams and you get an even more frustrating team. I love the way this year's team plays!
4 Tos a game cancels out 21/7/6?!? Go ahead and believe that. Orlando is playing over .500 ball, and is a very young team, with many new players--sounds to me like Orlando has been playing pretty well. For the sake of argument lets leave Francis out because its obvious Steve stole your wife, had 12 kids with her, and then proceded to put a gun to your head and is now forcing you to pay child support. Lets talk about some different players, who are turnover prone, yet are VERY important to their team. AI averages 4 TOS a game, is he a "net zero"? Wade averages 4.2 TOS a game. Kobe leads the league averaging 4.4 TOS a game. Are these guys a plus or a minus to their respective teams? Many good players average lots of TOs simply because the ball his in their hand more, and they are making things happen. BTW, I figured out who shot JFK it was STEVE FRANCIS!!
Sigh...again...with the Wade/IA/Kobe.... Wade is in his 2nd year. Will he improve? Lets wait and see. Wade is shootiing 48% and 23ppg. That's a little better don't ya think? Could it be because of Shaq? Sure...but Wade shoots 23% from 3pt (open shots from Shaq?). But he shoots 48% from the field. Most of those are drives to the basket. I'd say he's doing decent for a 2nd year All-Star. Let see if he can get those TO down before he retires. Ya think he can? IA? Hmmm, let see...he's scores 28ppg. Can Francis? No. Not even with more shots. He not that capable to sustain that over the 82 game season. He's tried that. Kobe? How about 27ppg? I think you get the picture. Does it mean that I want those guys on our team? No...but they are better that SF, even though their TO are similar. And I would take Wade/IA/Kobe over Francis anyday. It's about give and take. How much are you willing to sacfifice for TO in relation to other contrubutions. If you think that 21/7/6 +4.0TO is better than 27/7/6 +4.0TO, then Go ahead and believe that! I didn't say, that "4 Tos a game cancels out 21/7/6" in that it's ZERO. I said that the TO have more negative effect on a team's future than Francis's apologist want to think. Those other guys bring something more to the table than what Francis does. In the end... It's how well that player can unite his team to play as a single unilt. TO's are a major factor in that. By the way, if all teams could have a Shaq on their team, I"m sure it would have helped them reach the play-offs (Wade/Kobe). But in the mean time what are teams to do that just have a TO prone player that gets 21/7/6? Get "better?" Good luck. For the sake of argument lets leave Francis out (good riddance!) because its obvious Steve stole my team, had 1385 TOs, and then proceded to put a gun to my head and force me to watch 5 YEARS of bad basketball!
I think SF3 is an amazing athelete and get tired of people bashing him for not living up to our lofty expectations. Sf3 played his heart out and brought us our first playoff experience in quite some type.. (ummm.. along with Yao) he sacrificed so much of his game to help his team win last year.. he could have jacked up shots constantly and kept his ppg above 20 .. Was SF3 a disappointment? maybe .. was he the most disappointing no way.. its almost a slap in the face to say he was. No player is perfect and he made his share of mistakes, J
Oh so now scoring is big part of determining effectiveness. Funny how in the past it was all about the Ast/TO ratio, and how is poor ratio made him worse than guys like Luke Ridnour and Damon Jones(guys with excellent Ast/TO ratios). Sure when other players are TO prone, its ok because they are great scorers, but when Steve Francis is TO prone- he's automatically worse than guys like Ridnour, Jones, and Antonio Daniels-- nevermind Francis's scoring- all his turnovers negate that . hypocritical.
Dude Barkley was BETTER than Hakeem in the later years. Hakeem started to loose his quickness and stopped using his moves. Barkley's fat butt still have that unstoppable backing-it-in post up. Barkley was getting paid less than Matt Bullard. That dude had more heart than everyone on that team.
Wait a minute. It was YOU that brought up Kobe/AI and Wade comparison. All I did was show you where it would be better to have those guys than Francis. Can't you see that? Or would you pick Francis over Kobe? Or Francis over Wade? Honestly. That's why I did the comparison of points. Because you were acting like Francis, Wade, Kobe and IA were the SAME (Or at least trying to imply that) just because their TO were similar! Us bringing up Francis's TO is because he was on the Rockets. And the Rockets are our team and we care about them. And we felt that his TO was a detriment to the future of this team. If Wade, or Kobe or IA want to have high TO on their team, that's their problem! Next, the comparison regarding guys like Ridnour, Jones, and Antonio Daniels...that's a completely different argument. Those guys are ROLE players that do their JOBS! They don't overextend themselves. They don't play beyond their abilities. That type of control and consistency is the exact type of PG you want when you ALREADY HAVE A LEADER(s): TMac/Yao!!!! So, do you understand? It's better to have a high TO player if he's also a HIGH scorer (25+). And it's also better to have a role playing PG that score lower (10ppg), but has a very low TO rate (2.8). But the applications are different. One is a leadership role, the other is a role player. Francis is in the middle. He's not quite a high scorer (not 25+). Nor is he a lower TO PG. He's stuck in the middle in scoring but carries the high-TO. Sorry, but that's not enough. Too risky to build a team around. Yet, he gets a max contract like if he was KG, Duncan, or TMac? Much less Kobe or AI.
