Spurs have LMA and Kawhi who are exceptional mid range shooters. If we had Kawhi and LMA then the Rockets would take a ton of mid range shots as well. Remember Luis Scola and Patrick Patterson? Those guys were taking a lot of mid range shots hmm funny how Morey didn't discipline them from taking those shots, huh? My problem is most people who take about the merits of mid range shot have no idea wtf they are talking about. It's always stupid arguments hey the 3s aren't going let's take mid range shots or Teams have us figured out because we are a 2 trick pony instead of a 3 trick pony, like 1 more trick is gonna make a ton of difference. If the Rockets had tons of great mid range shooters, then you can criticize the team for not taking any. But considering we have nobody who can hit mid range at 55% or higher, what's the point of shooting mid range when they can't even hit 3s at 33%? Don't give me that crap about being "predictable", how is taking mid range shots supposed to be unpredictable when the opponent's game plan is to give you mid range shots? You do what your opponent wants you to do, my god that's unpredictable? You can't "guard 3s and paint", that's the whole idea of taking out mid range shots. Just imagine it, with no one in the paint that leaves so much area for a PnR. OTH, if we had guys taking mid range shots then that means there is at least 3 defenders near you when you do a PnR. It's pretty dumb to argue having a guy taking mid range shots would open up the space for everyone, mid range shots are the EXACT OPPOSITE of creating space for everyone. You think Spurs are dumbasses? You think they don't know what they're doing? Why do you think they leave the mid range shots open? Is it because Popovich is so dumb he can't create a defense that guards the mid range? Or is it because he wants you to take as many mid range shots as possible? Btw Rockets using Moreyball were able to get 3rd seed with a team having only 1 all star in James Harden. How many All stars do GSW and Spurs have again? But yeah, Moreyball sucks. In comparison, Mid range heaven OKC with the same 1 all star team barely made the playoffs. Why are you comparing star laden SAS and GSW to the Rockets and then saying Moreyball sucks? Compare apples to apples, which other 1 star team has gotten results as good as the Rockets this season? Nobody even came close, if anything it shows how good Moreyball is. You think you are smarter than the rest of the NBA? If Mid range shots are so effective why have they been decreasing over time? In an era where everyone gets smarter at basketball, the people here at CF want to get dumber and bring back something other teams have been quietly taking out. Only at CF: http://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/03/nba-fate-mid-range-shot/ https://sports.vice.com/en_au/artic...tial-analytics-killed-the-mid-range-jump-shot
Good midrange is better than a poor 3. It's also 70% of the shooting space . Discarding is ****ing r****ded. They practically dared the rockets while watching us shoot fadeaway 3s
Quantify this with stats. It's easy to say BS like this because you don't use data to argue. What constitutes a "poor 3"? What constitutes a good mid range? When your 3 pter is contested you can always pass the ball to the other side, with nobody in the mid range area there is 0 percent chance an opponent will steal the ball. OTH, if you have someone in the mid range area then its harder to make open passes, because guess what there's now an opponent between you and your teammate. Fadeaway 3s? You can't shoot fade away 3s, there are step back 3s but fade away 3s are almost impossible because leaning behind doesn't give you any strength for your 3 pt shot. Spurs aren't children, they aren't into "dares". Their game plan is to open the mid range shot because teams who shoot lots of mid range shots lose games, pure and simple. If they are opening up the mid range shot that means they want you to take mid range shots, and doing what your opponents want is supposed to be a good strategy? If you are an MMA fighter and your opponent wants to take you down to the ground, do you do what he wants and start grappling on the floor? Or do you stay on your feet and start kicking and punching? What you're saying is the Spurs are opening up the mid range, and we should do what they want and take these mid range shots. I fail to see how that would help the team win. P.S. Rockets didn't "discard" the mid range, they just limited it as much as possible. Its impossible to completely eliminate mid range shots, as we've seen Harden and Lou Will and even Nene take mid range shots from time to time.
I think we should talk about Moreyball not having a counter on the defensive side of things. Shall we?!?
system is good/solid ... what failed was execution... system doesn't tell you to walk up the ball dribble dribble dribble for 20 seconds shoot contested 3
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard because we are a better offensive team than 28 teams and only trailing the team that features Kevin Durant, Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. To put this into perspective, we took a team who's second and third best scorers are Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson and finished as the 2nd best offensive team. A combination of Lebron/Kyrie/Love/Smith couldn't outdo us. The Spurs are the best defensive team in the league, that's our offense wasn't as fluid as it normally is. The Spurs are also the most midrange-dominant team in the NBA (and they have the players to do it) which is why it is silly to compare their offensive game to ours, and I'm pretty sure it's also why a lot of people starting getting the bright idea that their attempts from mid range might be why they're so good. It's not. They are simply excellent at moving the ball and moving off the ball, and when it comes to individual talent, Kawhi and Lamarcus are elite in the mid range and Parker is pretty damn good too. We don't need a different offensive philosophy, we just need better offensive talent if we want to score more. Having said that, it's also ridiculous to be focusing on offense right now. We do not have a problem scoring. We have a problem defending (where we were ranked 18th). Our offense is MOOOOORE than sufficient to win a championship. Our defense is FAAAAAR from sufficient to win a championship.
Why do you want to argue what was evident? What constitutes a "poor 3"? A contested one with the defender up in your face... What constitutes a good mid range? An open shot without somebody up in your face... It was evident that the Spurs were gonna stay out on the 3 point shooters... and collapse to the paint and fill the passing lanes on drives... People want to say that 3s are better than 2s... thats based on the premise that the defense isnt staying on the perimeter and there's more traffic/defense closer in... it's about taking what the defense gives you... they werent giving us the midrange because its the hardest shots - they gave it to us bc they knew it was not in our gameplan and sought to make us adjust - we did not... and you see the results...
100% agree, except for the last passage. This is what has been said last year also before hiring dantoniO. Our offense is more than sufficient. I kinda disagree, to me it seems that there are huge reserves left on offense to leave it just as it is.
Anderson is the big question mark, but I agree that we are overall good on offense. Offensively if we mostly stay pat, we just need better execution and we should be top 5. In order to move into the contender tier, we need to be closer to top 10 in defense. Not sure how we can feasibly get there this offseason.
To me, it just doesn't make logical sense that there are HUGE reserves left on offense. I think that if there are huge reserves on offense, then there are GINORMOUS reserves left on defense. Can a roster consisting of these 15 guys be better than the 2nd best offense in the league behind possibly the best offense in history? Improvements can always be made, but realistically we have seen almost the ceiling of this team offensively. You don't need better offense than this to win it all imo. A top 5 offense is perfectly sufficient to win a ring, and we finished 2nd. On defense however, we are so far. We need to be top 10 but we are 18th. We need a 4 who can play defense and hit 40% of his 3pters. If we can't get better defensively while remaining stable offensively, then I'm open to jacking up the offense but the dollars won't be spent well there. There are a limited number of moves we can make, and there are 17 spots to climb defensively.
Well those guys shipped out. Its not about taking midrange shots for the sake of taking midrange shots. Those are the shots they are giving you. If there is a guy at the rim and you have an open 15 foot shot why would you want to drive to the rim? Overall 3s are more efficient, but if you are open you need to take what the defense gives you.
I know but the Duncan era Spurs and Pop did figure that Nash led Suns out a little. It is not a secret weapon.
Normalizing stats over the regular season is what gets you this nonsense because half of the time you are playing garbage teams. Another problem is that the stats are distributed over blow out wins and blow out losses. If you are a good team with frontrunners (the Rockets this year), you will blow out more than be blown out, leading to "good" analytical results. The reality is that there is no measure for someone who competes when down 20, who takes their job seriously, or is a good teammate. There is no measure for a guy who makes the right pick-and-roll call and coverage every time in analytics land. There is no measure for having to hide your shooting guard on PF's and C's causing cross-match problems on defense. The league has passed the walrus by. And it is time to fire the Penguin Danny Devito as the GM of the Rockets.
Its been a couple of years and you still pull the same crap. You don't argue the end result, the reality, but the mechanism for why you should be right. I'm not going to waste my time anymore. Also the whole idea "no good midrange shooters" is laughable. If you can shoot a stand still free throw, you shoot that same shot while a play is run for you and you're open. Guh'day, we agree to disagree
Exactly, we're not even saying that you should take them over the 3. For god's sake you can chuck from 3 all you want , too. but if you're getting open midrange and being heavily defended (spurs = best 3pt defense) then taking the ****ing open shot.
How many times did Harden pull LMA out to the 3 pt line... rope a dope him for a few seconds... then go around him... At that point Pau or whoever would step in front of the restricted zone with hands up to try and draw the charge - while the rest of the the d rotated and dropped into the passing lanes... at that point options are A) continue to the rim and hope you dont get called for the charge B) Try to kick the ball out and hope you find a passing lane a defender hasn't fallen into C) stop n pop with a nice cushion between you and pau or whoever...
