Morey and his argument of "Need 3 elite players to win a title"

You're confused, Rodman and Grant weren't stars.

 

I believe Morey has indeed argued this (along with many others). You could maybe stretch it and argue that you need a top 5 talent, but regardless, you need a historically great player/certain Hall of Famer to anchor the team to have a serious shot.

 

They were pretty solid. Grant was plus defender and rebounder and super plus at hitting the mid range jump shot. He was an all defensive player. His 91-92 season was pretty elite, maybe 3rd best player in the league that season. He did not sustain it, but those three years he was pretty awesome and clutch in the playoffs. I'm sure playing alongside Jordan helped, just like Parsons playing alongside Harden and Howard helped his numbers.

Rodman was a beast on the boards. Point is, if even Jordan and Pippen needed a quality 3rd wheel, Harden and Howard, still young, are going to need someone else like Grant or Rodman, a super role playing 3rd wheel if not a bona fide 3rd star, because admittedly, they are lesser ballers than arguably the greatest ever, Jordan and Pippen. So they might need better than Grant> Rodman >>> Ariza > Chandler Parsons

Ariza was better than Parsons last year. He may be better still playing alongside Harden and Howard.

 

They both played very good for the Bulls, I agree with you on that. I'm just saying they weren't stars, people just think that because all of the attention that the Bulls got.

To say the Grant was maybe the 3rd best player in the 90/91 season is just crazy.

 

Please leave out those 5 Lakers championships and give another look.

Shaq + Kobe are top 20 players in NBA history. When Morey talks about big 3, he wasn't referring to top-20 caliber players.

So yes, I agree with Morey. Especially if you want better chance of getting championship.

And no, Howard + Harden + Parsons won't make it.

 

How did 2014 Spurs have 3 elite players.. wtf

 

You throw around and substitute terms with reckless abandon. Horace Grant and Rodman were stars. Between them they have a few all star appearances. Then you throw out another term "elite". I admitted Grant was not elite, did not sustain that level, but he did have an elite season, 91-92. 14+ winshares. He was an all defensive player, which clearly does not get as much press or recognition as an all offensive player, say a Carmelo Anthony. But in many ways I would rather have a Grant as a 3rd wheel than a Melo, even if Melo's star burns brighter in the press.

You want to harp on ambiguous labels and nit pick the big picture which was my point. I never claimed Grant was an elite player for his career, as an aside I said he had arguably an elite season in 91-92. Rodman was an elite rebounder, and great defender and shot blocker, clearly limited offensively. Regardless, you want to pick nits on labels rather than acknowledge the point that even the great Jordan needed (if you want to water down the labels) super good role players because without even sub-super stars like Grant and Rodman they could not win a title by themselves, and by translation, lesser beings of Harden and Howard also need super role players, or god forbid, a 3rd star, maybe a dim star by your standards, but if the god almighty Jordan needed a Grant or Rodman in addition to Pippen, then surely Howard and Harden need something more than the 7 win share Parsons in their quest.

Now, if you want to go on picking nits on what is a star or have some other meaningless semantic argument, feel free. I'm pretty much done with your nonsense though. We had no chance to pick up a 24 year old Michael Jordan, I guess the time machine was out of order. Gee, I can't imagine why 24 year old Jordan didn't sign with the Rockets this off season. Brilliant, if only someone other than you had thought of that strategy.

 

Derp.

 

So much derp. Is that what passes for discussion with you? You pull a straw man like that out your _____.

There was no inference that Jordan was ever inferior, merely pointed out that even the great Jordan did not win his first title until age 27, so clearly the team DM is building deserves more time than all this doom and gloom on the board because we lost CP25 and Lin. Merely pointing that if the almighty Jordan needed more help like Grant and Rodman to win titles and until age 27 then maybe some Rocket fan/critics should be a little more patient before all the pessimism I see on hear about the epic fail of this off-season.

Clearly H&H needed a better third player vs Portland, and frankly Melo is a fine scorer but not elite imho (his defense and team ball sucks- his winshares for his career look a lot like Rodman and less than Grant), Bosh too is not elite, he was the third wheel to almighty Lebron and Wade and they failed 2 of 4 times to win it all and lost embarrassingly to the spurs in 5 games causing Lebron to go tail between legs running back to Ohio.

In any event, I wasted too much time responding to your derp and strawmen arguments and nit pick semantics. Good day sir and

Go Rockets!

 

I think Morey is getting at the idea that having three elite players is the statistically best chance to get a championship team from a GM perspective. There are lots of factors, many of which cannot be controlled for, his job is to put the team in the best position he can. He believes a squad with 3 max guys surrounded by good role players and smart draft choices (on cheep contracts) is the way to go.

 

I think it's stupid to look at history. Well, not stupid, just overly burdensome. Make it easier.

Who has 3 elite players right now? Like I've been saying, unless 45yr old Tim Duncan (hell, is Kawhi Leonard even that good, I can't see him as the best player on a 1-3rd place team), Serge Ibaka or Deandre Jordan is elite - who exactly even has the luxury of 3 elite players?

By Morey's logic either the Thunder or Clippers will win next year and no one else has a chance. Either that or he uses the term "elite" loosely.

 

Morey drafted Parsons.

 

Who wouldn't take Jordan... Can't use him in a debate.

We should've probably been playing that Chicago team instead of NYC. They almost made the finals without Jordan. So was Jordan's teammates that good _ or was that just a watered down era (in the east)..???

But you shouldn't just look at the players _ you should look at the coaches as well.

 

If he thinks Bosh is elite he has to be...

 

You can win a championship with two elite players if one (or both) of them is in the 99th percentile. Harden and Howard are 95th percentile or better, but neither is in that "superelite" category; therefore, THIS team needs another 95th percentile player to win a championship. Chandler Parsons is not a 95th percentile player.

I think that's the analysis, and I think it's correct. I'm just not sure how you explain it to Harden and Howard. :grin:

 

um, Who?

 

This is a great post and may have something to do with championships, so u can underrate coaching all you want. Many teams come by capable superstars but don't know how to bring the best out of them. These coaches did their best during their respected championship runs.

 

Or maybe some of those names are considered good coaches because they had a championship roster.