[Modesto Bee] What does acquisition of Artest mean for Hayes' role with Rockets?

As I mentioned in some other threads, I would look at trades including Hayes and Head with possibly even Brooks and Harris, to get such players that would help us more like (in order of preference):

Barbosa (trading Hayes, Head, Brooks and Harris)

Pargo (trading Hayes, Head and Harris)

Delonte West (trading Hayes and Head, and maybe something else)

I think we are deep enough at the four assuming Landry gets resigned and Dorsey can get some scrap minutes there. And I would also like to see us pick up a real back up center even if we resign Deke. I hope not to see Scola playing back up C this year, but rather instead hope to see him logging around 32 minutes per game at the power forward position where he will be most effective. Landry should get any minutes at power forward that Scola doesn't log. Artest should only get minutes there in a situational circumstance where we are going against an extremely small lineup, or we have injuries or serious foul troubles.

 

I like the Chuck Wagon a lot, and I'm not eager to move him.

That said, if there was a deal to be made that improved this team at the 1 I'd take it.

 

I think the question is, who exactly would improve the team that you could get for Head and Hayes (or any combination of the end of the bench guys). There really isn't much out there that I think would work. Or that I think other teams would give up to get those two players.

No one disputes the fact that we have extra depth at this point, making it easier to trade Chuck, but there is a limited number of possible options that would be worth trading him for.

 

Yep. I don't see Hayes, Head or a combination of the two bringing in a player who is going to crack the top 6 or 7 in the rotation so there is no point in moving either player IMO.

 

I really forgot that he's a part of this team!

Hey, Chuck Hayes is a great worker and has great attitude but that is not enough. He needs to learn to finish around the basket...but again there is no better defender on a low post on our team than him.

 

Phx can get more for Barbosa.

Don't think either one of these combo guards are going to be more valuable than Jackson was. At that price, I might as well give Brooks, Barry, and Francis a chance and keep my injury insurance.

 

Give me two examples of teams that could and would give more for Barbosa than Hayes, Head, Brooks and Harris.

Are you serious? You think Parge and West are no better than Jackson?

Hayes, Head and Harris will be hard pressed to get any consistent minutes playing for this team at all without significant injuries. Brooks' only hope of playing will be that Steve really sucks, which I am not expecting after his surgery, rehab and final year of this small contract.

So I really don't see where you say it is a high price to pay to get a Barbosa, Pargo or West, all players who would definitely get consistent playing time without injuries to this team. Whether or not the other teams make those deals can be debated, but cases could be made as to why they would do it. But assuming they would, I couldn't see Morey passing up on any of those deals, imho.

 

Phoenix isn't going to give up one of the best 6th men in the NBA for role players. Not going to happen.

 

I can't really argue that from a strong stand point. All I can say is that some people say that they shopped around to trade Barbosa over the summer. And if they want to clear up some cap room, that trade with us does so very well for them while giving them several servicable players that they can use off of their bench, and possibly grooming Aaron under Nash.

I agree with your logic, but I also would have never thought that we could get Artest for Jackson, Greene and a future pick.

 

If you can get a developing PG or wing....do it.

We are overloaded at the PF position now....

Scola
Landry
Hayes
Dorsey
Artest
Harris

Heck even Battier in a pinch...

That is 40+% of the roster at one position......at least we got rid of Novak....also a 4.....

DD

 

Please define "If you can get a developing PG or wing....do it." It sounds like...Gerald 'Hav-a-Mav' Greene. Or maybe Donte '40 Sac' Green. No?

 

out of this list, only scola is clearly ahead of hayes. dorsey is unproven and i doubt he gets much playing time early in the season. artest shouldn't play pf at all unless it's like a player like dirk nowitzki. the same is true for battier. harris is clearly worse than hayes. landry hasn't even resigned as of yet. plus, he has to be healthy first to get the nod over the chuckwaggon.

so, hayes has to stay. and that's a good thing because he's an excellant role and team player.

 

Absolutely and we should not give him away for nothing. Landry's knee could act up again and/or Dorsey may be too big of an idiot to help us next season (or ever).

Keep Chuck on the roster!

 

Good point. I just see Phoenix looking to get more offense after losing Marion for the Big Shoulda-Retired-Two-Years-Ago. Then again, with Kerr at the helm we may be witnessing the reinvention of the Phoenix Suns as a respectable defensive team.

 

Yeah man, I see where you are going and agree that is possibly what Kerr could be doing. On the reinvention side, that is why it would also be possible for him to consider Hayes as a good defender off the bench for them, Head a good 3 point shooter to help spread the floor down low for Shaq and Stoudamire, and Brooks as a good understudy for Nash who is getting older. I don't think Kerr sees Barbosa's style of play fitting in with their big man strategy in the short run....at least that is what I am hoping so that we could get Barbosa..lol.

But you could be right in that they would be looking for more offense to replace Marion, although I doubt they are going that direction since letting go of D'Antoni.

 

Look at Pargo's scoring efficiency last season. Rafer gets criticized for not scoring efficiently, though that's not his game. Pargo is supposedly an "instant offense guy" and his TS% of .468 was hilariously bad.

West? He got better with the Cavs, and certainly was a lot better a couple years back... but the guy's turnover % was higher than Yao Ming's.

Bobby Jackson was clearly past his prime, but he was actually more efficient than these two. More important, Aaron Brooks will most likely be better than these two.

 

Bobby Jackson's stats:
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

07-08 -- 72 5 19.3 0.403 0.358 0.790 0.5 2.1 2.5 1.9 0.6 0.1 0.82 1.30 7.7

Career -- 684 133 22.4 0.419 0.359 0.789 0.8 2.3 3.1 2.6 0.9 0.0 1.39 1.90 10.0

Aaron Brooks stats:
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
07-08 HOU 51 0 11.9 0.413 0.330 0.857 0.3 0.8 1.1 1.7 0.2 0.1 0.86 1.40 5.2
Career 51 0 11.9 0.413 0.330 0.857 0.3 0.8 1.1 1.7 0.2 0.1 0.86 1.40 5.2

Jannero Pargo stats:
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
07-08 NOH 80 5 18,7 0,390 0,349 0,877 0,3 1,3 1,6 2,4 0,6 0,1 1,16 1,50 8,1
Career 316 13 16,2 0,395 0,365 0,849 0,3 1,3 1,6 2,1 0,5 0,0 1,24 1,40 6,9

Delonte West stats:
Season Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPGBPG TO PF PPG
07-08 Not found 35 5 20.8 0.388 0.339 0.667 0.4 2.4 2.7 3.2 0.9 0.3 1.89 1.30 6.8
07-08 CLE 26 26 31.0 0.440 0.367 0.788 0.7 3.0 3.7 4.5 1.1 0.7 1.96 2.30 10.3
07-08 -- 61 31 25.1 0.413 0.356 0.736 0.5 2.7 3.2 3.8 1.0 0.5 1.92 1.70 8.3
Career 240 156 27.8 0.444 0.370 0.817 0.6 2.6 3.1 3.8 1.0 0.4 1.73 2.20 9.8

First, I think these stats speak for themselves. I don't see the turnover problems that you are refering to. Nor do I see the better efficiency that you are referring to.

Second, we are not talking about replacing or trading Rafer for either of those guys, but the back up role players of Hayes, Head, Brooks and maybe Harris. So comparing those guys to Rafer is not necessary.

 

Hayes stays for now. He's an excellent player to have coming off the bench for defensive matchups and as a backup insurance.

However, if Dorsey is as tough and NBA-ready as advertised and turns out to have some offense to go with his defense, Hayes may be shopped at the trade deadline or next off-season.

Which he might prefer by then if Dorsey takes all his minutes and he's just riding the pine.

 

I think i've said this before but this is completely false.

Steve Novak is terrible at almost all aspects of defense AND offense but he is a great spot up shooter. Chuck Hayes is really good at many aspects of defense AND he is a great rebounder both offensively and defensively.

That's the reason why a 6'6" undrafted PF can start while a 6'10" dead eye shooter only plays sparingly (on a team that needed shooting so bad) and is eventually traded.

It is simplifying everything immensely. There is much more to offense than shooting. By that logic you could say that Dennis Rodman and Eric Piatkowski are the same on opposite sides of the ball.