Hows this for black and white for you Pole. Player A shoots 38 percent from the floor Player B shoots 47 percent from the floor All other stats are equal....Who wins the game? Thats as basic as it gets. At least heypartner is following me. Since Jan. 15th Mobleys shooting percentage has gone up 9 percent. Is it any surprise that it almost identically reflects the increase in your equation? And to the poster who noticed also....Imagine what his early Stat (pole's) would of been if he shot at a decent clip. There it all is in a nutshell.
Dreamshake: How many free throws does player A take? Is player A only taking 3 point shots and player B 2 point shots? If so player A is kicking it from the rooter to the tooter (or lips to lips as they used to say in SC). ------------------
DS... Sorry, I'm losing you here. I would expect an increase in FG% for one player to reflect an increase in Pole ratio, as well. Only if the player drastically changes their *ratio* of 3ptr to 2ptrs to FTs would your find situations when FG% increases didn't reflect a move in the Pole ratio, or vice versa. Point is: with a player's ratio of shot selection remaining equal, improvement in one area %-wise is going to improve your Pole ratio. For instance, Dickerson's Pole Ratio certainly went up with his FT%. That's not reflected in his FG%, so Pole has a better stat. The power of the Pole ratio is not in saying it shows success better than FG% for a giving player (except when FT output drastically changes), it is used to compare different players...it shows how a low FG% player is better than a high FG% player. ain't that right Pole. Nothing illustrates this better than seeing DoD's top 10 with Reggie Miller in there. In fact, Reggie Miller's 3ptr and 90% FT shooting make him extra dangerous...as we all know he is!!
Plus, all things being equal: Player A has a 1.3 Pole ratio Player B has a 1.2 Pole ratio who is better....What is your point? They are both simple divisions...it doesn't get any easier than that. In a nutshell, Mobley is better because his driving got better. That took him 2 months of fearless driving with a lot of failure, before he got comfortable and started seeing the court better. Now teams must respect that more, so he can now pass it more and do the pull-up J. None of that is possible, until he first burns the defense by making it all the way to the rim by himself!! His shot selection isn't all that much better. The main difference is his drives have improved dramatically. That took time. And that will be reflected in both the Pole ration and FG%. To give you an example of Mobley's Change Mobley insists on facing his man, not backing it in like a Payton. In December, he faced is man while standing on the 3pt line. In the Seattle game, he dribbled slowly right into Payton, and Payton gave up ground up to the 18' mark. He know is facing his man 5 feet closer. I said back in January that would be how he improved...I can get that thread if you want. That 5' changes everything. He can now shoot right over his man from 18' versus 23'. Or dip his shoulder hard on a dribble as a fake and stop for the pull-out J from 15' in one quick motion before the double comes. He can do this, only because his drives have improved dramatically. He's finishes are very impressive. Who disagrees with his drives being better? [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 18, 2000).]
Man, I take a one-day sabbatical, and this thread just mushrooms. It's tough when you can't be around to defend yourself. It's been pointed out that Mobley's "Pole stat" has improved by just a shade under 12% since January 15. I must admit, that is much more of an improvement than I had thought. Still, his FG% has improved at slightly better than twice that rate in the same time. .47 FG% / .38 FG% = 1.237 or a 23.7% change I will admit that Mobley has improved, but not by 24%. And I still say that a good part of his FG% improvement has been the result of players being coached to avoid fouling him. Dreamshake, I'd answer your question, but I can't. All other stats can't be equal because your given stat (FG%) is related to others. If their FG%'s are different, and their FT and 3P percentages and attempts/made are the same, then either FG attempts/made or total points HAS to be different. I would assume that you meant total points would be different, but if that is the case, it's not really relevant to what this discussion has become. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
I defended you Pole...but you know, how did we get so far away from talking about Mobley. I purposely didn't mention it in my opening post, cause I didn't want to steer the thread much, but I was hoping to say..."throw the stats out the window", IMO Mobley is better because he's starting his drives about 5' closer to the basket. Just about where Jordan started his. That 5' difference is huge in his success rate. Not maturity, not shot selection, not getting his teammates involved....nothing but fearless, relentless attacking the rim with Rudy's full blessing was going to improve Mobley's success rate. That is why Rudy let him do it, cause it is the only way. Sure, the success of the rest of the offense does help keep the early double teams pinned down. But, Two Shakes mainly improves by Mobley being more and more fearless and finishing better. The game slows down to him now, and he can see his options better...pass, shoot, drive, dish, pull-up. We all get what we want from him now. But he's nothing but another Shandon Anderson shooter/slasher if Rudy would have coached by stats. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 18, 2000).]
Thanks Heypartner I must admit, I can be a little overzealous in my defense of Mobley, but I'd like to think it's because so many have been so overzealous (and so arbitrary) in their attacks on him. You started a good thread, but I've said enough in it, so I'll shut up now. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
It sad that no one outside of Houston has taken notice of Mobley this year. He's the defending Who's got game champion. The best scorer off the bench in the NBA. He hustles down the court. Plays good defense, against the shorter SGs. Lit up Pippen. Sets up the ball on the offensive end with Two shakes when on the court. He's got the undisputed fastest first step in the NBA. Side subject. Pole when did you come up with pts/FGA? I've been using it for a while, but never heard of anyone else using it. ------------------ Moochie hear no evil Moochie speak no evil Moochie see no evil
Looking only at SG's and PG's (and only ones that have jacked up more than 300 FG's and about 2 or 3 day-old stats) : http://drofdunk.tripod.com ------------------ <this space for rent> [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited April 18, 2000).]
