Passing the ball when double teamed does not mean that it is a PASSING offense. It is simply taking advantage of the situation. DD
DaDa, while i agree with you about the need for more passing on the rockets, i have to point out that every team needs a hog. every team needs a guy that will take over a game, whether he's covered by one man or two. why? to keep the pressure on the defense. to keep the defense running at you with 2 or 3 men, and when you do make that pass - being blanketed by 2 or 3 men - your teammate has an easy shot. look at the last few decades of championship teams. they all had a man that could - and would - score on double teams. shaq, duncan, jordan, hakeem, zeke, kareem. all these guys could score on a double team and would. they also knew when and how to pass out of the double triple teams when need be. what we needed (esp. last year) was more competent shooters so cat/steve had good options to pass to. i mean, really, i'd take mobley shooting over 2 people rather than t morris shooting a wide open 20 footer. sad but true.
Verse, Hakeem did not win UNTIL he passed out of those double teams, same with Jordan, and with Shaq. No doubt you need someone who is a threat, but passing to the open teamate wins championships. Horry anyone? DD
so the fault lies with both sides: cat/steve need to pass more and their teammates need to be competent enough to make open shots! the problem, imo, is moreso in the teammates than cat/steve. i mean, damn, when you give a guy an open look and he repeatedly misses, you're more likely to take the tough shot yourself. i know...i know...it's not right. but it is a part of human nature. but if these guys would make more wide open shots, i think cat and steve would have even more confidence to keep making those passes. hopefully ming, boki, rice and motay will remedy that problem and cat/steve will pass more for more open shots...
Well, Dream DESTROYED a Magic Laker's team in its PRIME 4 games to 1. And he didn't pass. That's worth a 1999 asterix title to me. He destroyed them. Magic said, "We didn't know he was that good." The deal is: You underestimate the effectiveness of NBA defenses when there is a bad shooter on the floor. Especially when their is two bad shooters on the floor. <b>Everyone agrees. Passing is a function of winning</b> Passing is great. But passing for the sake of passing causes busted plays. Passing to TMo and Cato is just passing for the sake of passing and can bust up the play. TMo knows how to pass fine, but once the ball goes to him the defense can clamp down on everyone else and make it so TMo has no passing outlet. The result is the PG having to come back over and grab the ball from him. Passing to Cato will bust the play, because Cato cannot pass or shoot or dribble. <b>Compare us to Golden State not Champions</b> Compare us to Golden State. Stop the silly theoretical comparison to championship teams. No offensive system will get a Shandon/Cato team to the finals. Golden State passes much more than us. But they seem to just be going through the motions. That's what it looks like. The defense gives up the passing lanes to certain players, and denies them to others. That is exactly what the Lakers defense did to San Antonio. However, you can't do a defensive strategy of denying the ball to all 5 players, if they all can shoot/create. But they sure as hell can do it to the Rockets. Can you at least discuss the defensive approach to stopping your offensive theory or acknowledge that at all. <b>Euro teams use 5 shooter with Drivers to Flatten Defenses</b> It isn't the passing that gets the defense moving to the point of picking their poison. It is the threat of driving and shooting that does. Have you seen some of the Euro Finals. Watch them. Some of the NCAA teams are the same way. They will just pass around the horn. They are not really even penetrating the interior with passes. They are merely make the D go back and forth by swinging it around and penetrating with their dribble. They'll use high picks for their penetrators, or the penetrators will just drive in. Sometimes it looks like they are just playing catch. They'll have one go working for low post. That is a Perimeter Flex that is attempting to draw the defense out to flatten it horizontally. Flattening the defense with a perimeter game is a good strategy. But it doesn't work unless you have 5 shooters. The Euro teams I've seen in the Finals are not doing sophisticated Passing Games ala Knight that are based on motion picking. They are just perimeter-based with the threat of driving. Just like Dallas. It is easy for me to understand how defenses can beat that when you field TMo and Shandons with Cato. It doesn't work simply because you teach your team to play it.
I don't think you are talking about systems designed to create double teams. That is how you have expressed yourself before. You've said the Kings and Dallas is the "whay bball is meant to be played." Dallas does not get double teamed much. Neither do the Kings. What are we talking about? How to force and beat double teams or how to prevent double teams and zones by spreading the floor and opening lanes.
We have a winner DaDakota you are so right. Thumbs up on breaking down the rocks biggest problem and why I got fed up with watchin them at times last year. As for the comment by whoever said one person on the team needs a ball hog??? I agree that we do need a person to step up, but to me that person is Steve not Cat. Some will disagree but thats my opinion and as for the folks who say he didnt trust his teammates thats why he took all the shots "Thats BULL ****". From game one to game 82, I never saw him try to implement using his teammates with his game. No doubt the dude has skillz but its all for none if you DONT USE YOUR TEAM... As for him being clutch, I dont know about that.. Moochie was mister clutch man last year, Yeah Yeah Cuttino may have hit 3 or 4 clutch shots but when you take 20 clutch shots in a season and only hit 3 or 4 than thats not clutch. All I ask is learn from your mistakes Cat. It gets redundant seeing the same ol' mistakes game in and game out. what he has to understand is it is not his job to try and carry the team. Just go with the flow of the game do control what your capable of controlling, He also has to remember it did take 3 seasons for him to get where he is, so give your team mates an oppurtunity to build an "in game Jumper" like Bark, and Hakeem did for you. When he was a rookie and Bark or Hakeem saw him wide open for a shot, they didnt say naw, he is the rookie im not going to pass it to him, ill just take the shot over these 3 defenders instead... Naw thats not the way to get better as a TEAM... ARRGGHHH! I could go on and on about this...
i don't mean to sound condescending, but you don't know basketball. do some research on the greatest player ever - michael jordan - then tell me that again.
aw exactly my point he is NOT a damn MJ nore will he ever be.... UGGHHH! Lets not get Cat twisted here, Like I saidhe has skillz but stop putting added pressure on the guy as being savior of the team. Cuttino is maybe one of the better roleplayers in the league but thats all he is...
Are your freaking kidding me. He scored 23.5 ppg 1986. Against the Lakers, they had no PG (Lucas was out, and so was Leavell). It was all Hakeem. I pretty sure he led the Rockets in scoring in each of those games, but maybe one. I am pretty sure he had a 40 pt game, too. Baseline turnaround after baseline turnaround. He totally caught the Lakers by surprise. I'm going to have to pull that box scores, unless you want to just say you don't remember.
All I am talking about is when you get double teamed PASS the ball to an open teamate. I don't think the Rockets have the personel to run either Dallas or Sacrementos offense, and they should design the offense around their strenghts, one of which is clearly beating the man off the dribble, that being said ...when you beat your man and the other team slides someone over to compensate, it is THEN that you pass the ball and get the defense off balance and an open shot for your teamate. It is just another way of creating a double team. DD
Thank you. That's all we were saying. No need to preach about the benefits of passing out of double teams, like Duncan and Garnett did when they got trounced in the 4th Qs of the playoffs, because they had no one open who could knock down an open shot. You underestimate defenses and make some simpistic statement about shying away from double teams. If your offense can't prevent double teams (Kings/Dallas) or force double teams and make them pay (Hakeem/MJ/Shaq), you aren't going far in the playoffs. We are learning while having to field Shandons and Catos. We are crippled, and the playmakers are second guessing the strategy, because they are tired of seeing open shots MISSED. You seem to have some simple solution. Do you think we don't believe in passing or sumpin. It isn't that simple. I don't believe in passive passing to bad shooters like what Duncan and Garnett did.
Did I say he was? Where in my post did I compar mooch to MJ? Read it again I didnt say anything about Moochie compared to MJ. All I said was Moochie made more clutch shots than Cuttino last year. I didnt say anything about MJ until the other guy COMPARED him to Cuttino.. Read it again bro...
you misunderstand me... that's what i'm referring to. moochie was not mister clutch man any more than mobley was or any more than mobley allowed him to be. if you notice, moochie's "clutch shots" all came off of someone else creating for him...that person often times will be and has been mobley - the person you criticize. give moochie the responsibilities that mobley has and he'll probably have a lower success rate than cat does (3 or 4 out of 20 )
Let's get the terminology straight. I hope we are not arguing about Mobley's being a "team player." My definition of a "team player" is someone who put the benefit of the team above himself. The opposite of a "team player" is a "selfish player." In that regard, I think most people (I hope) would agree that he is quite a team player. He is willing to play for less money. He is willing to help Francis be the franchise. Now, if we are arguing about Mobley's STYLE, then we do have some bones to pick. I do think that he is not very smart in terms of using his skills to make the whole team play better. Part of the problem is, of course, he didn't have a very good shooting team to pass to. But it's not just about passing out of double-team, but about when to pass and how to create that would get teammates easier shots. Francis is better in that regard. His style of play IMO has nothing to do with selfishness. He just needs to learn to play smarter. If he improves in that, he will be harder to stop AND scoring less at the same time.
The Kings should have beaten the Lakers that series. Double teams is a misnomer, because if you beat your man off the dribble and make someone else leave their man to stop your penetration it is not a double team, but does get the defense off balance. However, most teams are doubling the Rockets guards RIGHT after they cross the center court line and the Rockets should have an advantage in that situation by moving the ball. DD
Easy: Ditto. Cat isn't selfish, he just needs to "smarten up some." Hopefully a more complete team will help in that regard: "T-Mo's open? Pshaw! Take it myself."
