1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

MJ weighs in on who is better - Kobe or LBJ

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Dream Shake 81, Jul 14, 2010.

Tags:
  1. got em COACH

    got em COACH Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,253
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Kobe is a SL** and Lebron is just a CO** tease.
     
  2. tanviraman

    tanviraman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    36
    Other than his poor shooting percentage, people that love Kobe fail to see that he had as many turnovers as assits in a 7 game NBA Finals series.

    Name one other greatest player that has done that before.
     
  3. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Shaq was a 18/8, all star in west before joining Cavs. That's in line with the number Gasol got before he joined Lakers.
    Jamison was 20/10 before joining Cavs too.

    People just think they were crap. But it's actually LeBron made them bad.

     
  4. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2008
    Messages:
    26,614
    Likes Received:
    211
    kobe played a terrible 3.5 quarters. the only great thing he did was rebounding. he was ridiculously bad offensively taking some terrible shots (and he was forcing those shots too). fortunately, ron artest came up huge in the first 3 quarters and the interior defense of the lakers showed up.

    and yet we have lebron putting up 27, 19, 10, 3 steals including shut down D v. pierce in game 6 v. boston.

    the only things lebron struggled with that game were his shooting (8-21) and turnovers (9). but he still was the best player on the court.

    again, i repeat: fans just have higher expectations for lebron and it's understandably so. he is the best player on the planet and anything less than greatness is a failure.

    every night he steps out on the floor, his team should win while he puts up 30, 7, 7 on 50%+ shooting. it is what it is.

    hopefully, he continues to do what he does and win at the same time.
     
  5. EffTheJazz!!!

    EffTheJazz!!! Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    139
    Well.. you cant question MJ's evaluation of talent... ;)
     
  6. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    OK, let's see how well they do this year.
     
  7. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    LeBron shot more efficiently because every good post player had to get out his way. If they clog the lane LeBron's bread & butter 5 step layup is gone.

    Kobe took most of the shots outside of the paint, allow Gasol to have room to operate inside. He commanded a lot of attention even he shot mostly jumpers. And even if he bricked, Gasol had better chance to get the offensive rebound.

    That's just the way it is. When post players are forced out of paint, they aren't as efficient. The Cavs role players make LeBron better, but not the other way around.

    Kobe shot better in last year's playoff when Ariza was killing from 3pt range. But they'd rather give up that for Artest's defense. At the end of the day, it's a team game. Kobe made teammates better, LeBron didn't. Collectively Lakers were able to win, Cavs couldn't despite of huge favorite in consecutive years.

    That's what defines winner and loser.


     
  8. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Seriously, has there been a more overrated player ever? Kobe is essentially a taller Iverson-- HOFer, no doubt, but his fame is more for his flair and volume chucking than his actual contributions. He's lucky he's always been surrounded by great players to cover up his many flaws.
     
  9. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Why did Kobe shoot so poorly in 2005-2007, when he didn't have a great post player to "clog the lane"?
     
  10. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    MJ was pretty bad to evaluate raw talent and predict their performance in NBA. But how hard it is to compare two players that actually play for years?
     
  11. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    So would you trade Shaq for Gasol? Jamison for Gasol? Shaq+Jamison for Gasol? The current Cavs roster for Gasol? Which story are you trying to sell?
     
  12. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Because Kwame Brown is no Big Z. Sure he could stay out of paint, but that didn't exactly make the paint less clogged.

     
  13. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    It is almost impossible when they aren't on the same team.
     
  14. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Why did Kobe shoot so poorly in the Olympics?
     
  15. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    For one season before last one began, I certainly will do Shaq+Jamison for Gasol. For the long run no, age is always a factor.

     
  16. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Well, this only applies to last year, because that's the only time Lebron had Shaq+Jamison (and only at the end). So you would still make that trade?
     
  17. DUHK

    DUHK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    5
    I actually really liked Lebron before all this drama went on. He made watching his games really fun, and he is also very talented. But after all this happened, I can't say I'm a fan anymore. A lot of which goes into really liking a player has to do with their talent and their character. That's why it's so easy to like the guys on our team, and so hard now to like Lebron.
     
  18. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    He didn't shoot poorly, he was taking Bowen's approach. Park in 3 point line. He's also the main defender while Wade and LeBron played the passing lane for fastbreak.

    Of course jumpers won't be as efficient as fastbreak. He showed who's the man down the stretch, when they faced a good defensive team. A bad pinky didn't help either.

    Don't forget how LeBronze got ass handled in 2 tournaments when Kobe wasn't there to bail him out.

     
  19. clippy

    clippy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    4,869
    Likes Received:
    124
    Lebron made a terrible decision by turning his free agency into a media event. He should have just done it the way Amare did-- expressed that he was likely leaving and worked with the team & fans to make it easier (the fans would have still hated him but not as much).

    That said, I don't see how anyone can blame him for leaving. He wasn't in a good situation in Cleveland. The roster was full of overpaid players on long contracts and it is not a lucrative destination for free agents. He is in a much better situation in Miami and I for one am looking forward to it because it is very rare to have the two best players in the NBA on the same team. I can't really think of another time it happened, except possibly in 2002 with Shaq & Kobe. And that Laker team was fun to watch too.
     
  20. goodbug

    goodbug Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,863
    Likes Received:
    32
    Yes, I'd do that. Gasol wasn't exactly a better player than Jamison before he's traded. Shaq's 10 times better than a hobbled Bynum.

     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now