Miller for Francis???

voodoopope- you forgot that unforunately steve has almost no fans here.

fadeaway- please post the immature/childish comments that steve made regarding the draft and ming. i'd like to read them but i'm guessing i'll have to wait till he actually says them.
plus according to clutch, actually watching tape of ming has left a good impression with steve. of course this will be overlooked because it's a positive.

andre is a nice player probably an all-star at some point but he is no francis.
he has not once led that team to even a remotely decent record despite playing in a conference less than half as strong as steve's. i wouldn't understand this trade at all. everyone would b**** about miller the same as francis simply cause the grass is always greener....

 

Yes Miller hasn't lead them anywhere, but remember the year we won 45 games, Hakeem had flashbacks of the mid- '90s "Dream".........we actually had a certain low post presence.

And I think Miller has just as much "potential" as Francis....maybe more considering he's already the better "basketball player".....not athlete.
Personally.....now-a-days where there is an abundance of natural talent and "potential"......I'm taking basketball skills over natural talent.
Besides, it's not as if Miller is some slow, clumsy, uncoordinated player.........
He'll most likely be this year's version of Elton Brand.


Now, no way am I giving up on Stevie just yet, but he, Mobley, and the rest of the team need to learn how to play basketball.

 

45% of the people around here should be banned from posting .
Francis over Miller by a mile.
Clutch needs to do a little pre-draft house cleaning. Were going to need the extra space for true Rocket fans..
Go Franchise!!

 

ovverrated- i disagree, even if we were to say they were equal in basketball skills up to this point, there are some things steve can do and create that miller will never be able to. steve needs to learn how to run the team better but remember he has had only 3 years(inluding college) of learning to be a pg. last year was a throwaway, it's tough to improve when you play with a different team every night and you're even a question mark till gametime.

my point is, steve isn't just this untapped, raw athlete you seem to make him sound like. last year he was a 20, 7, 6 man on top of the turmoils.

dream was a big cog on that 45 win team but it was our team's youth that rejuvinated him as i recall him saying. steve was the man who made that team run. let's say all things equal what's the point of this trade anyway. we're supposed to be fans of the rockets, not the cavs or whatever. let's stick to what we got for more than 10 minutes and see what happens.

 

It makes me sick to see just how few true Rockets fans we have here. I like fantasy sports as much as the next guy but I think it's warped the common fans view of the game. It seems given the recent trend around here the starting line up if determined by the fans here would be Miller, Finley, Odom, Brand and Kandi. Give our current team+draft picks time to mature and in the long run we will be a much better team. IMO

 

steves stats:
fg 41% 3fg 32% ft 77% reb 7 ast 6.4 stl 1.25 to 3.88 pts 21.6
millers stats:
fg 45% 3fg 25% ft 81% reb 4.5 ast 10.9 stl 1.56 to 3 pts 16.5


miller gets 5 asts more per game turing into at least an extra 10 points...assuming that none of those were 3's.

he scores 5 points less than steve, but the total offence become +5 points with dre.

he gets nearly 1 turn over less per game.

steves rebounds will go down from 7 with ming and griff maturing.

the only down fall for miller is his 3pt shooting.

overall:

the kings traded for a true point guard. the nets traded for a true point guard.

 

I seriously think that if Miller found the right team, he would become instantly even better like Bibby did. I really don't see the Rockets trading the Franchise though, unless he tells them he will definitely sign with someone else.

 

So if someone thinks this team can be improved by making a trade, then they automatically lose their status as "true" Rocket fan?

That's a load of crap.

Some of you need to get off your high horse. Francis isn't perfect, and the Francis/Miller debate is a valid one. There are some things that Steve does better, and there are some things that Andre does better. That's the truth. Both are young and both have equal potential, but if I'd rather have Miller's skill set over Francis' (and I do), that doesn't mean I'm any less of a Rocket fan.

Just because some of you like riding Steve's jockstrap, that doesn't make you any more of a Rocket fan than me or anyone else who supports this trade, or any other trade they think will improve the team.

By your logic, I guess the people who wanted to trade away Pippen back in the day weren't Rocket fans. The "true" fans were the ones who stuck by him and wanted to keep him at any cost, no matter how bad he was on the court or what crap came out of his mouth.

There's nothing wrong with liking Francis better than Miller, and there's nothing wrong with liking Miller better than Francis, but to say that someone is no longer a fan because they want to make a trade they think will improve this team is complete and utter garbage.

 

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36176

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36219

 

How old is Steve again?

Thank You.

I think a lot of you are expecting way too much too soon out of a 25 year old. How many 25 year old leaders do you know? I cant think of many CEO's who are 25. It takes time, it takes growth, it takes maturity.

My biggest complaint on this board is that no one seems to have PATIENCE with our players and wants to throw out bullsh!t trade proposals when something goes wrong.

Like the comments Steve Francis made..... way too much overreaction there.

 

fadeaway- neither of those threads contained a childish comment made by francis. all i read is overreaction.

the only quote we have is: "I've never been able to play with a guy like that so it remains to be seen how it will help my game."

doesn't actually say anything since we don't know the question or the context of the interview.

 

fadeaway was asked for a source on Francis making childish or disruptive commants and replied:
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36176
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36219

Steve, it seems, was on channel 13 and said something along the lines of [about ming] "I've never been able to play with a player like that." O MY GAWD! And all we're doing is trading him??? Shouldn't he be executed or something?? [sarcasm off]

Now, I didn't see the interview, so I could be way off base here, but Steve could have been saying, "I've played with tall, sweet shooting, fundamentally sound centers plenty of times, and I just couldn't deal with it," or he could have been saying "I've never had the opportunity to play with a player like that."

I'm not against trading Steve if (like Quitten) be becomes detrimental to the team, but so far I have seen nothing (including the links above) to make me thing he is or will be.

 

Fadeaway - I'm both surprised and saddened by the results here and all of the bashing Steve has taken on the board mostly over a poor choice of words. It is my opinion that most here want to complete numerous 3 way trades gut the team and compile some sort of Fantasy team. Basketball doesn't work like that. Teams need time to mature and grow together but many fans here are ready to trade Steve who is an allstar and marque player for (IMO) a regular joe with "True" point guard skills. I'm a rockets Fan, not a Steve Francis fan. I'm all for discussing trades, but (IMO) the folks here bashing Steve are not TRUE fans of the rockets. Talk about trading him, sure... just don't trash him to support your point of view (I'm not saying YOU did but others here do). Steve is our best player. Period. How can the people who trash him turn around and support him? True Fans support their team don't trash its players. Pippen said and did things that were detrimental to the team... IMO Francis has not. For the record I'm neither on a high horse or on some players Jock, I'm a rockets fan first and foremost. I'm surprised and saddened by the support some people have shown for our best player (flawed as he may be).

 

Andre Miller has gotten better over his years in the pros, too bad the Cavs have not. Big Z is the most important player on that team, and the difference between that team winning and losing, not Miller.

 

Stats aren't everything in bball like they are in baseball. We all know how well the Rockets do without Steve. Even with Moochie putting up similar-looking stats, we couldn't do anything.

Does anyone know Cleveland's record without Andre Miller? I bet Mooch would average at least 8 assists per game on that team. Don't be misled by the fact that the Rockets' system is not conducive to high assist totals. The mere presence of an offensive threat like Steve on the court makes the game much easier for the rest of the team (particularly Cuttino and Cato).

I expect to see the same thing with Ming joining the team this year. He will be able to score even while guarded - and if you don't guard him or don't box him out for a rebound, you may as well concede a basket. We will have the spacing Rudy loves - and the shooters to go with it.

Have a little patience folks - you'll be saying "How sweet it is!" soon enough.

 

To make it to the playoffs and further, we need some "Team" players not "me" players. You only have to look at Sac. and NJ to see what I am talking about. I don't care about athleticism and "potential". I would take a true point who makes his teammates better anytime over a me first, turnover prone PG.

 

Yup, I'd much rather have a Jason Kidd/Mike Bibby type of player (Miller) than a Stephon Marbury replica (Francis), but that's just me. I guess I consider good, fundamental basketball skills to be more important than athletic flash.

And like it or lump it, Francis is a "me first" player. The Vancouver incident shows that.

 

Falcon -

1.Francis does make his teammates better, check our record with out him.

2.If he was truly a "me first" player he would average over 30 a game, easily.

3. His turnover to assit ratio should fall as the players around him get better.

Yes we need the players to play as a team and that happens when a team grows together over the years (see the Kings). It doesn't happen overnight with trades that 3/4 of the GM's in the league would laugh at. Steve is one of best players in the game and a trade for a player of lesser caliber would not help our team.

 

This fascination with Andre Miller puzzles me.

What has he proven?

Has he played on a winning team? Not once.

Has his team ever come close to a winning season? Never.

Has his team gotten better while he's been there? Not a bit.

Has his team actually gotten worse in a coference that is getting more horrible each year? Yes, it has.

All Andre Miller has proven is that he can put up big numbers on a ****ty team, when Andre Miller leads his team to a winning record, like Francis did two years ago, then come talk about how he's better than Francis.

Like it or lump it, Miller has proven absolutely NOTHING, except the ability to get gaudy stats on a ****ty team.

Francis has proven he can lead a team to wins.

This isn't even a comparison.