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Measuring Lin's scoring consistency (as well as that of other Rockets)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hollywoodMarine, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. New

    New Member

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    You could have a small SD ESTIMATE even with two points. It is the estimation that is off. It has nothing to do with the underlying SD or Shake. There are robust estimators if you care about outlier...
     
  2. Grigori

    Grigori Member

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    When you get jerked around in the rotation a lot, your stats are going to look inconsistent.
     
  3. New

    New Member

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    Percentile != percentage... Please check the definition of TS...


     
  4. DarkRock

    DarkRock Rookie

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    YOU CAN HAVE ALL MY REPS FOR EFFORT!

    I had a hard time reading through it not because it's garbage but because it's so detailed. Too detailed in fact that repeatedly I lost concentration reading.
     
  5. Grigori

    Grigori Member

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    I think the conclusion is that he's pretty consistent...when he's not getting jerked around.
     
  6. langal

    langal Contributing Member

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    I never thought that inconsistent scoring was Lin's problem. Even in his bad games, he usually has at least 10 points on limited shots.

    He just has some really bad looking turnovers sometimes that really stick out.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Lin is consistently mediocre and inconsistently brilliant. The real issue with him is that he's confidence and mental approach to the game isn't the same from game to game. So while his scoring may be consistent to his minutes, he overall game, energy, attacking style is more tied to his mental approach.
     
  8. hollywoodMarine

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    Honestly, IMO this is a good post. I know people don't want the GARM to be littered with redundant posts, but I do feel that if this were to be merged, it would get lost in the other thread's 4th-5th page. If a mod does decide to merge, can the mod maybe add his findings onto the initial post (with proper credit given to quatin of course!)?

    For those of you who wanted other variables such as TO's, assists, even PF's included in a consistency analysis, well quatin just showed it in this post. Of course analyzing variables like GmSc (that takes multiple things into account and puts it all in one score) comes with its own limitations and disadvantages, but for a good general picture this is suitable.

    One thing I want to add... for Lin, I think his per 36 GmSc should be a little higher at 11.20 (data should be prescreened for games that are too low in minutes. As Lin fan, of course I will nitpick if I find something that is making him look worse :p). And Parsons's Per36 GmSc I found was actually 12.61. Maybe I'll double check that again later, but that is what I got. Consistency wise, my opinion would be to still divide the SD over the average GmSc to get a consistency percentage... and in that case Lin actually has a tiny bit lower shake or higher consistency value than Parsons (though not by much). Some have mentioned in the other thread that SD also naturally increases with smaller sample size. As a result, there needs to be some way to remove or lessen that effect (as Lin has played significantly fewer games than the other three, his SD may be unfairly inflated)

    Counting numbers of games below 10 and dividing by total N as you did is a good way of looking at the "bad inconsistencies" and ignoring all positive deviations (Although by my calculations, Parsons's bad-game% is actually at 38%, and not 36. Small difference, but just like with my Per36 GmSc finding, either I made a small mistake, or you did). But it may be even better to get the under 10 SD, and under 10 mean GmSc, as this way you get an idea of the level of dispersion for a player's "bad games," and how bad on average are those bad games. (I estimate that although Parsons has an equal or slightly higher bad game percentage as Lin, that Lin's bad games may be "more" bad, and also more "inconsistently" bad. But that's just a guess)

    Lastly, as I said GmSc is good way of looking at a player's overall performance, but may have its own limitations. I believe that the problem with scores like GmSc is just like with PER, the formulas created to produce these scores give weight to different aspects of a player's performance... but who knows if some aspect is given too much weight, or others too little? IMO it is hard to determine what amount of weight given to what part of the box score is actually "fair"... for example, I have heard the argument that PER "unfairly" rewards inefficient shooting by placing a bit too much weight on FG made and too little weight on the negative effects of FG missed. Not saying that is true or not, just that PER, just like GmSc, is probably not perfect. And the fact that Parsons' per 36 GmSc and percentage of "bad games" is so much worse than I expect does make me wonder. For a more complete picture, a look at other variables individually can help us identify specific areas that may be causing the GmSc to be inconsistent for both Lin (I'm willing bet it would be his turnovers) and Parsons (I am completely at a loss of what that could be). This is not to discount your findings, just saying that additional analysis of those other things individually added to yours can be eve more illuminating.
     
  9. hollywoodMarine

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    Can you elaborate? I'm talking about the fact that lower number of games generally cause a group of scores to have higher SD than higher number of games. Do you know of a way to "balance" that out? (accounting for this would significantly increase the consistency values of the bench players, and may also moderately increase that of Lin's and Beverley's as well)
     
  10. hollywoodMarine

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    Yeah, a couple posters have echoed this sentiment. How do you measure or operationalize "confidence," "energy," and "attacking style"? I'm legitimately curious if there is a way. Maybe find out how often a player makes sudden accelerations? (do such statistics exist?) Or maybe for Lin, how often he attacks and attempts to draw fouls, vs how often he hesitates and waits in the corner to shoot threes? I don't know, it is difficult to think of how to accurately measure this. Not saying he doesn't have moments where he is forcing things or hesitates and hurts the team, just that some statistical analysis can help us get an idea of whether our perception of that particular weak aspect of his game is as bad as some of us believe.
     
  11. TheJet

    TheJet Member

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    Interesting. That makes me believe that "inconsistent" is somewhat subjective to the viewer. If one expects Lin to be brilliant (or awful) every night he'll appear inconsistent. If one expects average play he'll seem more consistent.

    That's a bit of a stretch considering we can pin down the definition of consistency pretty well but I like to illustrate how preconceptions and expectations can really skew things.
     
  12. quatin

    quatin Member

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    Feel free to take the data/method and add to your own thread. No method is perfect, there's always ways to improve. I actually did this a month ago for a different reason than evaluating Lin. I made the title, just cause I thought it was cute. Your thread just reminded me about it.

    When Morey came out with the "we don't have a 3rd star" article, people thought that was an insult to Parsons. I did this to show that Parsons performance was closer to Lin than he is to Harden/Howard. The key take away from my analysis is, out of our top 4 offensive options, there's 2 role players and 2 stars. I didn't think that needed to be said, but there's too much homerism going on with Parsons.
     
  13. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

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    If there's one thing Lin has been consistent on this season it's his jumpshot.

    Another thing that's consistent is his shaky decision making and turnovers.
     
  14. AvgJoe

    AvgJoe Contributing Member

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    There is one thing consistent about Lin.

    He's consistently not reaching his full potential in consistency.
     
  15. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

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    I posted this before but I'll post it again. The biggest reason Lin is viewed as "inconsistent" is because he's stuck between two types of PG's: Athletic and Fundamental PG's.

    Fundamental PGs: Kirk Hirnich, Luke Ridnour, Steve Blake. These are guys who have excellent ball handling, decision making, fundamentals and great shooting, but not overly athletic.

    Athletics PGs: Derrick Rose, Westbrook. Guys who aren't as fundamentally sound but have the athleticism to put the team on their back and score at will.

    Then you have guys like Lillard and CP3 who are a mix between fundamental and athletic who can do both of those things.

    Lin doesn't fit in either of those two categories. Not fundamentally sound, and not overly athletic. He's a poor man's D. Rose but shows flashes of great athleticism and shooting.

    Lin is what he is. An athletic PG but not incredibly skilled at one thing.
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    What I am saying it that on any given night you will have lin play brilliantly and put up big numbers but more importantly help the team win, and on other nights he will put up decent numbers and help the team win, but on a lot of nights, he will play mediocre and still score 10-13 points.

    My point is that his contribution goes beyond points or whatever.

    Consistent vs. inconsistent is how is he facilitating. He might not get an assist on the play, but if he is breaking down defenses and putting them on their heels it's going to open up the court for everyone else. He can put up 8 points, 3 assists and 3 rebounds and still play really well. That's what a lot of people are failing to understand.
     
  17. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger Rookie

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    Yeah man, it's like he's only played two seasons or something :rolleyes:
     
  18. rlivz

    rlivz Contributing Member

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    I don't think there's a good way to measure it - Sweet Lou brings up a good point with how he breaks down defenses when he gets dribble penetration... you just have to watch him play. Maybe you could find a way to measure points in transition, in my opinion that's when Lin is at his best. Some nights he really pushes the tempo and that's when he helps the Rockets the most. Other nights, he dribbles to the three point line and picks up his dribble.

    I'm not going to provide statistical evidence because I'm not going to waste my time, and I'm not sure there even is any... anyone with an unbiased eye towards Lin can see that some nights he is constantly attacking as soon as he catches a pass on the perimeter or pushing the tempo as soon as the ball is inbounded, or constantly probing and circling the lane. Other nights, he looks completely unsure of what to do when he gets the ball, he picks up his dribble randomly, or he drives into the lane unsure of what he's going to do with it.

    Even his coach made mention of it after the Cleveland game, he was praising Lin for his constant attack mode and comparing it to nights when he doesn't play as well.
     
  19. SHARKLIN-SOUP

    SHARKLIN-SOUP Member

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    I think its harder to be consistent when you are starter, then bench, then starter, then bench again. Also, bench players aren't allowed to "play through" as many mistakes as starters are.
     
  20. hollywoodMarine

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    I understand what you're saying. But wouldn't the efficacy of "breaking down defenses" still depend heavily on whether he is finishing or not? If he is scoring a high% on his drives, then the defense is more likely to pay attention to him, which in turns should mean he would have greater ability to break it down and draw attention away from his teammates. I'm just having a hard time picturing a hypothetical "8 point, 3 assists, 3 rebound" game that is considered a good game for him, even if he was playing aggressive the whole time... UNLESS of course he got those 8 points very efficiently. But then, this is the part of the game that I am still learning to understand... can you provide an example of such a game (maybe I can watch it and better understand your point)
     

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