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McGrady & Yao: Enough to Make Rockets NBA Title Contenders?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Tango, Jul 22, 2006.

  1. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    I think that's a pretty plausible explanation for the lack of increase in offensive efficiency. I'm not sure I understand the defensive increase by your example.
     
  2. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    Hmm, interesting observations. Hindsight is 20/20 but regardless I'm less inclined to believe there were any real positives with letting Mike James go for Rafer Alston.

    What you just posted is more salt in the wound for me! :)
     
    #22 Tango, Jul 22, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  3. JeopardE

    JeopardE Contributing Member

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    Going by my personal observations of the games in that stretch with T-Mac and Yao, I'm not surprised by the results.

    - T-Mac and Yao are two of the most underrated defensive forces in this league. Yao is a very intimidating post presence (despite the fact that he doesn't block as many shots as some other centers do), and T-Mac is one of the best one-on-one defenders you'll find. So it is not at all surprising that their presence together gave the defense a significant boost.

    - Even though T-Mac was back, he never was quite 100%, and anyone who watched him play knew it was quite evident -- his reluctance to take it to the hoop, the way he came down at times, etc. Combine that with the fact that we still had a shooting deficit among our role players (thus allowing teams to get away with double teams). This also demonstrates the fact that even though Yao was incredibly dominant, the team did not benefit a lot from it because practically every time he passed, it resulted in a brick. A one man show isn't going to help a team's offensive efficiency ratings. So it definitely makes sense that they were able to upgrade the defense significantly, but the offense wasn't really that much better because of the inability of role players to convert open opportunities.

    So why were we winning at such a torrid pace? Confidence. Just having T-Mac and Yao on the floor definitely gave the rest of the team a much needed shot of confidence knowing that they *could* win. And the presence of those two in the 4th quarter did give us a much better chance at winning games (those who followed the team closely know that they did not get blown out often -- there were a lot of games that were close up until the 4th quarter, and they just didn't have the depth to pull out the win most times. That's directly a result of their defensive efficiency (hence their high defensive PPP ranking).

    It would be particularly interesting to see how the team's defensive PPP in that stretch compared to the rest of the season.
     
  4. vizier

    vizier Member

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    nothing can be said for that stretch as the sample size is way too small.
     
  5. Downtown

    Downtown Contributing Member

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    Good work, helpful read, admire your time and effort in innovative analysis, and appreciate your well thought-out conclusions.

    One factor that is missing, though, and is absent from any statistical analysys and important for us all to remember as we are hoping for the best of health for our 2 Rocket stars, is that we have yet to see the new, aggressive, in-your-face-and-at-the-top-of-his-game Yao, like we saw in the second half of this last season, playing with the fire-in-his-belly-take-over-a-game-and-will-to-win McGrady like we saw season before last...!

    Now, Rocket friends, trust me...if we can see that, the possibilities for us are limitless!!!
     
  6. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    Basketball statisticians use a figure of 250 minutes played or more as the basis for calling analysis valid for a player. If we take that concept and apply it to a team as a player we find that the total # of minutes played for the 19 games was roughly 912 minutes which is much greater than the necessary 250 minutes.

    2ndly if we look at the 19 game stretch we find that the Rockets core players during that stretch had the following minutes played:

    Alston 688
    Bogans 312
    Hayes 146
    Head 352
    Howard 573
    McGrady 589
    Ming 635
    Swift 230
    Wesley 605

    I'd say that the sample size is probably enough to give us an indication.
     
  7. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    DRtg: 97.2 (Jan 30 - Mar 8)
    DRtg: 101.6 (Full Season)

    WC DRtg 05-06:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. rn_xw

    rn_xw Member

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    superb job! graphs are very clear and I find it sooo easy to read. Thx for the information. It does help me find some confidence back.
     
  9. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

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    I'm going to have to agree with Van Gundlier, Tango. I think it's harder to analyze a true PG. Alston is a true PG, so his efficiencies are dependent on others, as for someone like a scorer, take James, is independent, since his efficiencies are solely based on himself. Basically, Alston can make a pass, but if they don't make the shot, it isn't an assist, right?
     
  10. IROC it

    IROC it Contributing Member

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    If the Heat's recent success with an older Shaq and a cast of misfit pieces past their primes and scrubbery can be any indicator...


    Yes. :D
     
  11. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

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    About the defense:

    One of the things that Van Gundy complained about last year was having to use midget guards way too much. When McGrady was out, that became more of a problem.

    With McGrady in the lineup, the Rockets get to play him at SF for most of the game and have Bogans split his minutes backing up SG and SF. Whenver Bogans is at SG, the Rockets manage to have a somewhat normal size matchup. With Tracy being a normal sized SF and KB being a normal sized SG.

    When McGrady was out, Bogans started at SF and plays pretty much all his minutes there. Bogans himself is already somewhat short for an SF at 6'5'', but he holds his own. The problems are 1.The SG spot was manned almost exclusively by Wesley and Head, two severly undersized guys, and 2. when KB had to sit, Van Gundy ended up playing David Wesley for a good chunk of the SF time (after his pretty much lost faith in Ryan Bowen) ...

    In any case, McGrady being out basically forced the Rockets to play undersized around the perimeter for the entire game, with McGrady in, at least the size problem is less severe... My theory is that the extra size issues presented by TMac's injury is what caused the Rockets D to drop when he's injured.
     
  12. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    Ah yes, but of course if you look at their PER ratings as a team their scrubs are much better than our scrubs.

    [​IMG]

    Rockets have 3 players above avg (15.0 PER) - TMac, Yao, and Hayes. I don't think Hayes really counts but no matter we'll include him. The Heat have 4 players above avg Wade, Shaq, Mourning, and Jason Williams.

    2ndly let's just compare the ORtg, DRtg, and Pt Margins:

    HOU: (streak)
    ORtg: 101
    DRtg: 97.2
    Pt Margin: +3.2

    MIA: (Season)
    ORtg: 107.2
    DRtg: 102.7
    Pt Margin: +3.9

    Miami's scrubs are better than our scrubs. EDIT: ...better than our scrubs last season. The jury is obviosly out on our new additions!
     
    #32 Tango, Jul 22, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  13. Van Gundier

    Van Gundier Member

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    At least their misfits have primes to past.;)
     
  14. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    Good explanation of what you meant. Thanks! I understand now.
     
  15. rimbaud

    rimbaud Contributing Member
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    Shouldn't it also be noted that last year Yao Ming and McGrady were never fully healthy when on the floor together? I would imagine that a late season Yao Ming from last year and a Mcgrady from two or, even better, three years ago would make the team more offensively efficient?

    But, yeah, Battier and Snyder are not prolific but have been pretty efficient on offense so they will also help.
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    So, with a (somewhat) healthy lineup on the floor the Rockets where the best defensive team in the league. That sounds about right. I think you conclusion is wrong though, because it weighs offense and defense evenly. In the other thread I showed that there was more correlation between being a top defensive team and winning than with being a top offensive team and winning. Defense wins championships and the Rockets with McGrady and Yao were #1. I would say that makes them more than 1st round fodder. In addition to that, having guys going in and out of the lineup probably screws with team chemistry and all of the aspects of the game that depend on playing with somebody, like defensive rotations and ball movement. They would probably have done better if they got to use a single rotation over the course of the whole season. Generally the teams that are among the league leaders in # of starting lineups used are not the big winners on the season.
     
  17. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    It's been mentioned a few times and I can buy into the logic. That being said if you look at McGrady's stats 2 and 3 years ago this is what we have:

    Code:
    Year	Tm	MP	FG	FGA	PTS
    2004	ORL	39.9	9.7	23.4	28
    2005	HOU	40.8	9.2	21.3	25.7
    2006	HOU	37.1	8.7	21.5	24.4
    During the streak his per game avgs were:
    FG: 7.4
    FGA: 19.7
    PTS: 19.8

    So yes he definitely was not at his season avg. for 06 nor for the prior seasons. The thing to note though is that with Yao in the game and playing like he was when he was on his tear is McGrady going to be able to average 21-23 shots per game anymore?

    I could be totally off but I just don't know if having a 100% TMac translates into an increase in offensive efficiency of any more notice. Heck w/ Yao on a tear it didn't budge it that much either.
     
  18. Tango

    Tango Contributing Member

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    No, the conclusion was that the team with the highest pt margin correlates the closet to winning .pct (the difference between offense and defense) and making it into the playoffs. I can't say about the playoff's because I haven't crunched the numbers but that should be interesting.

    2ndly in the east defense is the 2nd thing that corellated to making it into the playoffs while in the west offense was the 2nd correlator. (You'll have to look at the updated graphs there).

    I don't disagree with the rotations but I think that's more an outcome of having a solid set of role players you can count on vs. it being a factor of leaving the same guy out there intentionally just for "chemistry".
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Not that I don't believe you, but 250 seems way too small to me, especially considering that all teams go on good/bad runs throughout a season for no apparent reasons?=.

    Keeping in mind there was always someone injured, including Alston himself, I certainly don't believe a 19 game stretch in the middle on an injury plagued season is enough to accurately gauge every players impact on the team.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Tango,

    Where your stats fall down is that they do not take into account the Yao that came back after the injury in dominating fashion.

    THAT Yao and a healthy Tmac are MUCH better than first round fodder, espcecially when you add Battier and all the other new additions and if Sura comes back.

    YAO OVER SHAQ IN THE FINALS BABY !!

    DD
     

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