Markieff Morris likes Houston as a possible new destination.

Ha. Nice try. That's clearly Marcus!

 

Everybody and their grandmother knows that dude. LOL

 

Please put down that crack pipe bro, real talk. LOL We're comparing apple to apples not apples to strawberries.


And again you're completely wrong, people are showing you the advance stats and you're still acting clueless. This is why a member started a thread basically saying people such as yourself is using it completely wrong. You're trying your best to butter up Dmo all the while throwing salt on T.Jones. Makes no since Bobby.

Dmo is not better than Morris nor is he better than TJones. They are all lumped in the same tier class.

 

Unless we get a significant upgrade at PF, which M***** Morris is not, we should stand pat. TJones and DMo are should be a decently good duo if they can both stay healthy.

 

What are Morris' stats when playing next to Howard? Oh that's right, they don't exist. It's possible that he would be a great fit when playing next to Howard, maybe better than anyone the Rockets have at that spot right now.

It's funny how the DMo knights in shining armor (I know this isn't you Mr. C) place all these stipulations on how his performance can be evaluated (namely that we can only look at his stats when playing next to Dwight), but everyone else gets to be evaluated in a vacuum apparently.

 

I agree with the sentiment of this statement .... Tho they all have different skills some more valuable than others.

For that reason (being relatively equal in talent) I wouldn't bother making a deal for Morris .... If it were a clear upgrade sure , but I'm not sending out multiple assets for a lateral move.
If it comes to the point where we need to move one of Jones or DMo , we have until mid February to find a better deal.

 

If we were interested in Morris, the only thing I could see Morey being interested in would be the following:

McDaniels, TJones, Hayes

for

Morris + a minor incentive.

It might kill our free agency hopes in 2016, but Morris on an 8 million dollar deal will be a steal in 2018-2019.

 

Phoenix would take that in a heartbeat.

Heck, they'd take either Jones or KJ straight up with salary filler.

I could see us giving up Chuck Hayes, but that's about it.

 

...patiently waiting for one of you pro-Markieff, "let's do it" posters to explain to me how he fits. I've asked twice already. Explain to me how this wouldn't be a total trainwreck.

I mean that respectfully. But I need one of you to sell me on this.

 

If any of them were thinking, they wouldn't be "pro Markieff, let's do it" posters

 

He's be a great 3rd power forward.

But $8 million for that? Pass

 

DEFENSE:
I think Markieff was a better player than DMo or TJones last season. Mainly because of his defensive impact.

Reading this thread, you can see just how many people didn't watch Morris play because of the way they ignore his defensive impact. Morris only averaged 0.6 BPG and 6.2 RPG which are unimpressive numbers. I'm sure a lot of you just checked those numbers and decided that Markieff wasn't a good defender. But there's a lot more to defense than rim protection and rebounds.

Markieff was a very impressive defender last season. His impact could be seen in the On/Off numbers where the defensive play of the Suns took a big dip when he wasn't in the lineup. And the fact that his Synergy tracking numbers back up his On/Off numbers is telling. According to Synergy, Markieff was both an elite low-post man defender + an elite PnR defender.

Markieff was graded out as a very good defender by Synergy and his actual On/Off numbers indicated that he made a big impact on the Suns D. Markieff also passes the eye test on defense. You can see how well he moves in PnR situations + his ability to stay strong in the low-post.

Although DMo is a solid team defender and TJones came on as a shotblocker last year, neither of them are on Markieff's tier as an overall defender at this point. Dwight/Markieff/Ariza as out starters could mean a Top 5 defense even with a Lawson/Harden backcourt.

But with that being said...

EXPERIENCE/POTENTIAL
Markieff -- 7798 career mins -- 26 yrs
DMO ----- 3527 career mins -- 25 yrs
TJones --- 3243 career mins -- 24 yrs

DMo and Jones still have the arrow pointing up in their careers and room to grow whereas I think Markieff is basically a finished product. He might continue to get a little better but at 26 with nearly 8000 mins in the league, he is what he is. Both DMo and TJones haven't even played half as many mins in the league as Markieff. There's a much better chance that TJones and DMo still have another level left in them than there is for Markieff.

OFFENSE
Markieff's offensive game would need to change-up bigtime to fit in Houston. Check out 2015 Markieff vs. 2015 DMo vs. 2014 TJones is terms of scoring by shot locations....

Player ------- 0-3ft ---- 3-10 ------ 10-16 ------ 16-<3pt ----- 3pt
Markieff ------ .611 ----- .436 ------- .502 -------- .397 ------- .318
Motiejunas --- .643 ----- .500 ------- .361 -------- .222 ------- .368
Terrence ----- .724 ----- .389 ------- .391 -------- .273 ------- .307

The interesting thing about these 3 guys is that they were all absolutely elite at one area of the floor.

- Markieff was 3rd in the league in FGs made from 10-16 ft trailing only CP3 and Dirk (9th in FG% among those in top 100 of FGs made from 10-16ft)
- Donuts LED THE LEAGUE in FGs made from 3-10ft (also 9th in FG% among those in Top 100 of FGs made from 3-10ft)
- Jones was 16th in FGs made from 0-3ft (LeBron/Durant/Dwight/Blake were the only players with BOTH more field goals AND a higher FG% from 0-3ft)

Markieff is an elite mid-range jumpshooter, DMo is an elite mid-post scorer, TJones was an elite finisher in 2014.

I don't fully agree with it but the Rockets just do not use the mid-range shot in our system, which means that Markieff's biggest strength offensively could be underutilized here. He'd be taking more 3s on our squad for sure. But as a 32% 3pt shooter, his elite mid-range J doesn't translate into an elite 3pt shot.

BOTTOMLINE
Our two young PFs will be free agents next year. Getting Markieff at $8M per would be a good bargain when one of our guys might get $12M+ next year.

But I wouldn't pull the trigger. Markieff might be a slightly better player right now and also have a better contract, but he doesn't have the upside the other 2 guys have left and I think betting on DMo/Jones over Morris is smart choice.

Markieff is also a toxic personality and do we really want to add both Lawson and Markieff in the same off-season? Chemistry still matters a ton and sometimes you have to take that into consideration and pass on a move that would make sense otherwise.

Hopefully DMo's back is ok and TJones is healthy next year. I can't wait to root for those 2 guys to go all-out in a contract year, because that could mean a deep playoff run for our team.

 

First of all, let me clarify that I am not pro Markieff, I am just not one of these people that see any news, instantly forms a stupidly polar opinion and refuses to look at things objectively.

When you look at this situation, you have to consider a bunch of different things.

1.) How do you feel about the non basketball turmoil surrounding Morris?

To clarify the situation, Morris and his brother agreed to take less money to stay and play together. In that time, they got involved in an assault on an individual whom they believed was text messaging their mother in a perceived sexual manner. What really happened, who knows, but from what I have read, Marcus appears to be the bad apple, and Markieff more of in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Flash forward to free agency, the Suns trade Marcus in their pursuit of LMA, without telling Markieff, who becomes furious and demands a trade. They felt this was a betrayal because they took less money to play together. While I agree everyone should be professional, I believe there is atleast some justification for his actions. I don't know the law very well, but I do know that if the Rocket do their due diligence, and they believe the lawyers can get away with Markieff not doing any jail time, I personally could look past the trade demand and the assault. I think any time you have some volatile players, on a losing team, with a bad culture, that volatility causes disruption. However, in a strong organization like ours, that stuff is much more manageable, and less likely to surface.

2.) How does he fit and what does he bring?

Markieff Morris is a good player. Outside of Harden and Lawson (and maybe Thornton), Markieff would be the best offensive creator on the team. Its not Dmo, who needs the ball in a specific spot, to post up effectively, Markieff is a workhorse who can take the ball in the high post and has an assortment of moves to score and create. He is not an elite offensive player, but he is very good at it. He has a natural set of tools which Hakeem and McHale could really help him develop and utilize. He has a very nice touch around the basket with both hands, which is something very frustrating about Jones. He can shoot the ball, and while not a deadeye shooter, players seeming become more efficient in our system without all the defensive attention they had in their previous spots. He is a good passer with better court vision than Dmo or Jones. No, he is not a great defender, no he is not a great rebounder, but as your offensive workhorse off the bench, you would be hard to find a better guy.

When I envision Morris on this team, I see a guy who can pair up with Lawson off the bench who can actually produce a decent offense, while Harden sits. Jones is more of a garbage man, and isn't capable of that. Dmo is better at it than Jones, but I see him as a starter rather than a guy off the bench. Whatever way the lineups workout, adding Markieff, would be adding another talented guy to bolster our bench. He would probably be the 4th or 5th best player on our team.

When it comes down to the playoffs, we are going to have to matchup with Iguodala, Thompson, Speights, Livingston, Stephenson, Crawford, Pierce, Kanter, Diaw, West, Ginobili, etc. on opposing benches. Brewer, Jones, Capella, etc are nice, but you can never have too much depth.

3.) The contract situation.

I don't know if people understand what is coming this offseason with Jones and Dmo, but both are RFA, and there is going to be an unprecedented amount of free cap dollars to spend, without alot of talent to go around. Jones and Dmo will receive ~15m dollar per year deals over 3-4 years. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN. Are you comfortable paying them that amount of money? Because that is what it is going to take to keep them. If you aren't, then why are you opposed to locking down Markieff Morris at 8m per year? Even if you think both Jones and Dmo are unquestionably better than Kieff, are they worth double? If you are going to vote no on Kieff, you need layout your plan for next offseason because its a critical part of this.

Now I am certainly am not in favor of trading the farm for Markieff, it is worth determining if this is a nice buy low opportunity. If it was a straight up Jones for Markieff swap, I would probably do it, but it becomes a little harder with the salary matching. If we wait till January 15th, we could trade Jones/McDaniels/Hayes for Markieff + 2nd round pick and I think we are a better team by the time the playoffs come around.

All I am saying is I would not just completely blow off the possibility, like everyone else is.

 

They can't because it will. I don't like his attitude. He has a lot of demands for someone who is not even an all-star.

 

interesting to see the arguments going back n forth from both sides.

i think we dont really have to commit to a decision so early, i'm very curious to see how both our PFs operate within the team this year.

i think best case scenario is to trade both PFs to a disgruntled star who we know we dont mind paying the max for when his contract renews, ala Harden and OKC. i think Morey prefers paying low and max, no middle grounds although Morris might be considered low in the new salary structure?

 

Okay, let's look at defensive impact then. You claim that Morris was a better defender, yet he allowed an opponent FG percentage of 52.4% at the rim compared to 48.9% for DMo....who was also playing out of position at center for a lot of the season, making his assignments tougher to defend at the rim.

How about just within 6 feet? Surely Keef must have done better there right?

Well Keef held his opponents to 0.3% under their normal shooting percentage within 6 feet....so he did do something sort of good, but of course DMo holding his opponents to 5.2% under their normal shooting percentages within 6 feet is just a whole lot more impressive.

I don't know where you got the idea that Keef was a good defender, but the numbers simply don't bear that out. He's at best average and you are flat out wrong when you try to call him "an elite low-post man defender"....he's actually increasingly terrible the closer to the rim you get.

Using on/off numbers really only shows the quality of depth on a team while opponent FG% against and opponent FG% differential are much better at showing how a defender actually performed.

 

Terrance Jones is Soft.. I take Morris for His Heart and Desire to Win...

 

You make some good points and I understand you're just trying to look at this objectively.

I still contend that he simply doesn't fit. He's a mid-range guy. He likes to shoot baseline jumpers. He can't shoot the corner three. Despite his high skill level and face-up game, he's not going to overpower you in post. He doesn't draw many fouls. His paint numbers are ordinary.

I understand he's a competitor and his game is solid in all other areas. I'm not saying he couldn't help us - especially if he were to hypothetically get Josh Smith-ed and wanted to sign basically for free. But the odds of that happening are very low. Hell, you could make the argument that this type of move (acquiring him in a standard trade) actually weakens us if you believe, as I do, that KJ is going to be a huge part of this team - since any Morris proposal would likely start with TJ + KJ + filler.

I think the bottom line here is it's an unnecessary risk. I believe D-Mo is a better all-around player and fit for this team. I do not believe he would start over D-Mo, so what we're really arguing here is Morris vs. TJ. Since Morris' main contribution would be scoring off of the bench, it's precisely why I've argued that I would rather have Carl Landry for the minimum since their games are very similar on the offensive end (but that's neither here nor there since Landry hasn't been bought out yet). It's not meant as a slight against Morris or to overlook his potential impact, it's just meant to point out I'd rather have a guy that's 8/10's of the player Morris is vs. Morris, himself, with $32M guaranteed and no TJ or KJ. Not to mention, the attitude issues and baggage.

 

Very nice. Thank you for this even comparison.