i think the Texans can possibly win the super bowl with matt schaub. i think peyton manning gives them a significantly better chance. what is so ****ing hard to understand about that? quit pretending that is a nonsensical stance to take just to give you a reason to keep pooping rubbish out of your mouth.
We’re not having a general, all-encompassing discussion about random Super Bowl contention and the NFL’s 32 QBs. We specifically discussing which QB – Peyton Manning or Matt Schaub – gives the 2012 Houston Texans the best chance of winning a Super Bowl. Given age, resources, health, experience, chemistry, et al – things I’ve been citing for weeks now, plus Manning’s long history of playoff implosions - I don’t see 2012 Peyton Manning as an appreciably better option than 2012 Matt Schaub. In fact, I see him as a worse option – again, given the mounds of context. If this were 2009… I’d have a different opinion (though I’d still be dubious of Manning’s playoff performance). But it isn’t. I’m not going to step into your vacuum and pretend everything is 1:1. I have very clearly understood your position dating back to your very first post because I have repeatedly challenged it. You meanwhile keep polluting the thread with nonsense and distraction. This question has been on the table for weeks now: Given his playoff track record, which is not good and devoid of Super Bowl championships, how does Peyton Manning significantly increase our chances of winning a Super Bowl championship? He’s won one in 11 postseason trips. That’s a 9% success rate – if you want to extend it to reaching Super Bowls, it's 18%. Meanwhile, he’s been one-and-done 64% of the time. Are you going to argue Schaub, who you admit is capable of winning a Super Bowl, would post worse %s? (Please don’t answer yes because his actual rate is 0% - remember, we agree that Schaub is absolutely capable and likely to lead us to the playoffs in 2012…)
avoiding taking a stance, as usual. keep blathering and waffling. you just said there is no level higher than super bowl contender. making a smart-ass, condescending statement (as usual) en route. i called you out on it, and you came back with zippo. i apologize for exposing you, but i can assure you, most people on here think you are a joke anyway.
Absolutely - I don't think anyone would argue that. But the Texans had more talent surrounding Schaub than the Colts had around Manning this year. Maybe - but at the end of the day, they still won 10 games and they still made the playoffs. That's the value of Manning. Teams win games - he's a part of that team. During all the Vince debates, people constantly argued that it's a team game and that Vince doesn't win games by himself, etc, etc. Why doesn't that apply here? Their teams have lost during the playoffs, and it's often because they simply faced a more all-around talented team. The last time Manning had a truly awful playoff game was 2004. His last 5 playoff losses have had QB ratings ranging from 88 to 109, so it's not all him. Manning makes his teams very good - but if they aren't as talented as others at other positions, that's something that can be exploited in the playoffs. In 2010, the Texans had Schaub, Foster, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, Mario Williams, Cushing, Ryans - and they were 6-10. The Eagles this year had star power everywhere and were 8-8. Having a handful of great players is different from having a great team. That's why my original post pointed to the fact that it's hard to separate a QB's performance with the team unless you have side-by-side comparisons with and without the QB. For the first time in Manning's career, we got that this past year, and we got to see just how much the team's success was dependent on him. The Colts collapse was every bit a product of a lot of different things, including numerous poor drafts (they seriously haven't had a good one in years), poor coaching, and players getting older and/or hurt.[/QUOTE]
no, this is ABSOLUTELY the answer to the question that you are posing. it is a stat that DIRECTLY answers your question, and PERFECTLY refutes it. This is the answer to the question citing a meaningless statistic that completely ignores every single other factor such as surrounding talent. It is Schaub's comparison of the exact same stat that you are using to make your point. I put no credibility in either of those stats, or else i would have no hope of schaub whatsoever. I would then be a complete brainless buffoon like you and think that statistic means that Matt Schaub has a 0% chance of winning the superbowl this year to Manning's 8%. I would also be forced to believe that TJ Yates has a 100% chance of winning a 1st round playoff game every single season he is in the league for the rest of his career. your main argument is so flawed and you are so incapable of understanding that, that it's mind-boggling. i think that peyton manning gives us a better chance at winning the superbowl than matt schaub, because he is one of the best quarterbacks to ever take the field, and i have yet to see his skills decline. the texans are 2 and 16 vs peyton manning. if, during that duration, peyton manning was the texans qb, and david carr / matt schaub were the colts qbs, do you think we would be 2 and 16 vs them? and if you just go with the matt schaub era, do you think we would be 1 and 8 or whatever vs them? peyton manning is an elite talent. like top 5 of all time elite. pair him up with andre johnson, reggie wayne, foster, our offense will be insane. way more electric and unstoppable than it would be with matt schaub at the helm. we would be blowing out teams, cruising to a 1st round bye, and i see no team posing a threat to us in the AFC. with schaub, i still have questions and doubts. i remain hopeful, because i'm a huge fan. i remained hopeful that tj yates would win us the super bowl last year, despite KNOWING that it was completely wasting a playoff appearance letting him play, and knowing in my heart of hearts that we had a 0% chance of winning the championship with him. i remain hopeful that the astros will contend for the playoffs by some miracle this year, even though they are by all accounts, a sub-60 win team. these are my opinions. i think peyton manning is better than matt schaub, by a longshot. i'm sorry, but i don't give a rats ass if you agree with them and the many others who think the same way. please do not feel obligated to break this post down into 40 sentences and 40 condescending, nonsensical, waffling responses like you do with every other post you respond to.
And if one hasn't played since the 2010 season, had 4 neck surgeries, and isn't throwing for teams just doing meetings.
This argument is the stupidest thing I ever read. So you are saying it is better to never make the playoffs, then make it one year and win it all that makes you great. By your argument: Rex Grossman, TJ Yates, Trent Dilfer, Neil O'Donnell, Matt Hasselback <-- These are the types of players that you'd prefer to have. Due to their winning percentage in the playoffs. Completely ignoring the fact that an NFL player can't dominate like an NBA player could, BUT 1 player ABSOLUTELY has the ability to turn a good team great, or a great team into a Superbowl Favorite. Fact is Manning wins games late if given the opportunity. Schaub doesn't. That is one of the single most important aspects of a great quarterback. There are MAYBE 5 quarterbacks in the league right now late in the game you'd feel VERY confident that they will come through for you: Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and I consider these 2 50/50s: Roth & Rivers. If we are in the Superbowl down 4 points, starting a drive on our 20, 2 minutes left, who'd you rather have? The person you pick here, is the quarterback you should want. If you say Schaub, you are a complete idiot.
That factor is there. I'm on the fence about signing without making him throw. If he signs for very cheap I'd be all for it (Schaub is still there, so take the gamble). If he demands crazy amounts of money, then force him to throw for you, or don't sign him. I don't think anyone here is saying sign Manning no matter what, even if he looks awful, demands a lot of money, and refuses to do any sort of drill. BUT if stuff checks out, I think most people (maybe not on this board, but in general) would prefer a 36 year old manning over a 31 year old Schaub to lead their team.
someone describe to me a scenario that actually works for Manning to be a Houston Texan. please, because i'd really like to know.
Rick Smith:Hey peyton wanna be the texans QB Peyton: Sure where do i sign Trade Schaub, and use his salary to pay Manning, it's that simple
If only it were. To whom? I will be SHOCKED if Manning doesn't sign for significantly more than the $8.5 million Schaub is owed. All signs point to him wanting to get PAID. Everyone keeps rolling their eyes and saying "Well, of course you don't sign him without making sure he's healthy!!" Well, why don't we know if he's healthy? Why hasn't he thrown for anybody? If he IS healthy, there is absolutely NO downside to him showing teams that he's healthy, but he has yet to do this. Why? I just don't understand why people are foaming at the mouth and falling over backwards because the Texans won't be taking a desperate gamble when they're not desperate.
what was that meme? why aren't there any videos of PManning passing? well, besides the dubious covert video that has leaked.
We have more than 8.5 million in cap space, I don't think you plan on trading Schaub. Cut Jacoby, use most of the cap space we have to say, "Manning look we are on the cusp of a Super Bowl, you've made a ***** ton already, how about you take a little less , and we win at least 1 Super Bowl." No real risk, as we aren't resigning Mario anyways, so we aren't giving anything significant up to get him. If his neck doesn't work out, Schaub is still around. IF he works out and he looks like Peyton of 2009, maybe then you start moving pieces, moving Schaub for picks to open space, restructuring contracts, etc. To offer him a huge contract. IF a Miami or anyone comes in and offers him 25 mill/yr with no workout, and that is what Peyton wants, you say whatever, and move forward with the team as it is. I don't see the harm in pursuing outside of hurting Schaub's feelings. I mean it sucks to be in Schaub's shoes then, but there are worse situations than being able to chill on the bench and pocket 8.5 million, and have a Super Bowl ring.
Its not that simple, peyton will ask for a lot of money. are you going to sign him before having a workout session without him? and trade schaub for what? another player? draft picks? those cost money too.
how do you know we have 8.5 million in cap space? the experts saying we dont have more than 1 million in cap space
Yea I could've been mistaken. I was calculated AJ moving ~6 million around, Cutting Winston ~2 million, and leftover space. I thought that cleared up that space, I had trouble finding an exact number. There aren't any clear salary pages, like the NBA has.
