The only people I see throwing around the 'hip' label are people who don't own Macs. None of my friends who own a Mac bought it as a status symbol. Yes, what's under the hood can be had at a cheaper price. But you can't deny that Windows and OS X (and Linux) are distinctly different experiences. Some people think it's worth the premium price. Some people don't think it's worth it. And others think Windows is better to start with. Some don't care at all. To each his own. When it came time to buy a new computer I wanted to weigh ALL my options. I was also interested in switching DAW's (I have a pretty serious music production hobby), and Logic is Mac only. I played around with a Mac at the store for 30 minutes and I really took to it. When a friend asked me for computer recommendations, I told him to do the same thing. I really liked my Mac, but I recommended he go take a test drive at the store and decide for himself. He ended up buying it. I'll also mention we're both technically inclined (he works in robotics, myself in software development). I've also realized in every office I've worked in there's always at least one or two guys who rave about Macs. I always wondered why on earth these guys who are very computer knowledgeable used Macs but now I know why. I mention all this to debunk the myth that it's only computer illiterate people who take to Macs. And finally, I do think the Macbook Pros, for example, have a very high premium price that's out of line. But I think the Macbooks and iMacs are well worth their values.
I would say that it has been discussed ad nauseum in any thread related to the subject on this board. I don't mean that to sound attacking or whatever....just the truth. Apple has its own marketing army: its customers. Either believe what they have to say or not. Windows users tend to forget a rather big point: Odds are that a person who uses Windows at home is rarely, if ever, exposed to actually using a Mac while probably 90-95% of Mac users use Windows all time time: computer labs, offices, etc. Now, Mac users have been accused of being snobbish and elitist for years. But you've seriously got to ponder this: If we were happy with Windows computers, would we not be buying those, instead of Macs? The short answer is yes. The OS is UNIX-based and is inherently more secure. Cleverly-worded question, btw. Apple's market share has done nothing but grow. AFAIK, the instances of virus issues continue to be basically a non-issue. Pretty much. I download crap all the time. I've always downloaded a bunch of crap, whether I had a Mac or a PC. Mac issues were very, very rare when I had one (a Mac, I mean). I wish to hell I had a clean XP disc....which is part of the problem. With a PC there's so much extra garbage on there you've really got to know what you're doing to get rid of it. Mac's have no such issue. When you buy a PC, you've got software made by one guy running on hardware made by another, with whatever supplemental software made by someone else entirely. When you buy a Mac, you get an OS specifically designed to work on specific hardware, and any other software is specifically designed to run with specific software on specific hardware. The result is a much more seamless working environment, and thus, less prone to issues like we're discussing. Like I said, my PC works fine. I have to jump through the hoops I mentioned above to keep it that way, which is a pain that I'd rather not have to worry about, but right now I have a PC and I'll do what's necessary to keep it running. Think of it like cars: All makes and models will get you to the same place, but some are a lot nicer and less prone to problems. Its ultimately up to you whether or not that justifies the price. For me, the answer is simple: my next computer will be a Mac and when I'm done with nursing school, I'm getting a BMW.
I would say that it has been discussed ad nauseum in any thread related to the subject on this board. I don't mean that to sound attacking or whatever....just the truth. Apple has its own marketing army: its customers. Either believe what they have to say or not. Windows users tend to forget a rather big point: Odds are that a person who uses Windows at home is rarely, if ever, exposed to actually using a Mac while probably 90-95% of Mac users use Windows all time time: computer labs, offices, etc. have both a mac and a windows machine at work but i perfer my xp machine. Now, Mac users have been accused of being snobbish and elitist for years. But you've seriously got to ponder this: If we were happy with Windows computers, would we not be buying those, instead of Macs? I've owned a mac and i perfer windows. I really believe there's a reason why there's more windows users than mac users. Because there's alot of people that are actually happy with their xp machines. i remembered when people claimed os 9 was better than win 98. there's no way a coorporative multitasking is better than preemptive multitasking. os 9 crashed almost every other hour yet mac users swore by it. of course, osx is much better, even better than then windows, still, it goes to show you people see what they want to see. The short answer is yes. The OS is UNIX-based and is inherently more secure. Cleverly-worded question, btw. Apple's market share has done nothing but grow. AFAIK, the instances of virus issues continue to be basically a non-issue. if you use the auto updates and the anti virus, you really have nothing to worry about. unix is not inherently more secure. mac osx is more secure because hackers care less about it then windows. unix servers gets hacked into almost the same amount as windows servers. windows desktop users get hacked into more because they're not power admins like unix admins. I download crap all the time. I've always downloaded a bunch of crap, whether I had a Mac or a PC. Mac issues were very, very rare when I had one (a Mac, I mean). I wish to hell I had a clean XP disc....which is part of the problem. With a PC there's so much extra garbage on there you've really got to know what you're doing to get rid of it. Mac's have no such issue. this much is true. but if you know how to uninstall software, which isn't hard, windows xp is faster than mac os x. it's been proven in almost every non bias benchmark. i'm too lazy to look it up. but go to anandtech and do a search or do a search on google, benchmark mac vs windows xp. When you buy a PC, you've got software made by one guy running on hardware made by another, with whatever supplemental software made by someone else entirely. When you buy a Mac, you get an OS specifically designed to work on specific hardware, and any other software is specifically designed to run with specific software on specific hardware. The result is a much more seamless working environment, and thus, less prone to issues like we're discussing. the converse side to this is that you always have to wait 3 or so months for a mac os x driver and the hardware drivers are usually second rate. that's why gamers are nearly always windows users. it's not apple's fault but the effects are the same. Like I said, my PC works fine. I have to jump through the hoops I mentioned above to keep it that way, which is a pain that I'd rather not have to worry about, but right now I have a PC and I'll do what's necessary to keep it running. windows runs fine. os x is stays on longer, but we're talking about keeping on your computer for months, which most people don't do. the main reason is that there are vastly more programs designed for window then mac osx which leads a higher possiblity of poor programming. of course, that means there are a ton of more apps for windows. Think of it like cars: All makes and models will get you to the same place, but some are a lot nicer and less prone to problems. Its ultimately up to you whether or not that justifies the price. For me, the answer is simple: my next computer will be a Mac and when I'm done with nursing school, I'm getting a BMW. i donno, i still perfer my suv jeep over my classy 2 seater mercedes. i make this comparison, because i actually do get more done with a pc while the mac osx looks better. here's why just 10 reason why: 1.) the common api on windows is much more robust. meaning on most apps, they use a common dialog box where i can can delete, move, copy and paste. most of the common api's on windows is alot more developed than the mac's. 2.) the removable drives on windows are not cache written. i hate emptying my flash drive before i take my my memory stick. i have a usb.1.1 stick and it can take up to 3 minutes before it writes the data into it before i can remove it. 3.) the empty trash thing leaves space on my memory stick. maybe you can help me out. but i want to empty my trash, only on my memory stick, but it removes it from all of my drives. 4.) it leaves resource files on the server. i'm a web designer and it leaves junk on it. i can't seem to delete .appledouble for some reason. while not intrusive, i waste time searching for files especially when i have to look over 100 files in one folder and mac doubles that number but placing resources files there. 5.) it's nearly impossible to re-associate file extensions with an app. this drives me nuts sometimes. there are alot of others, but we'll leave it at that for now. of course there are things i like about a mac, but i perfer the windows machine, and i use both on a regular basis at work. (I need to make sure my web pages work for both a windows and a mac machine). Yes, i'm nerd, but a damn good looking one
Rather than bother with the rest of the junk in the thread (since becoming a user of both OSes I've really opened my eyes to the crap that is thrown around in BS fanboy wars), we should try and address your question. What are you going to be primarily using it for? You mentioned a couple programs; is that about the extent of it? The pros are very nice, but one of those things you have to kind of 'need' (or just don't bother spending the money on). I've found the macbook is plenty powerful and stable for a majority of regular use. Stuff like iMovie and Garageband work just fine on it. Some of the advantages of the pro are a little more power, better graphics capabilities and (in most models) more storage space. The stuff that comes in handy with pro apps (like Final Cut, Aperture or Photoshop for example). But if that's not really your focus a standard Macbook would work out just fine.
Fanboy wars? All I see is people calmly discussing an issue I have always wondered about. This isn't Engadget.com or a ps3/xbox360 thread. Hilarious you criticizing people discussing things on a BBS. On that note, thanks goes out to lynus for giving me an intelligent perspective instead of saying "its better" without proof.
guys hardware is around the same price now. yes apple is probably just a tad bit more expensive but in the end it's about saving couple of hundred bucks or using an operating system that you like. the only question is do you want to use OSX or XP. hyundai is cheaper isnt it? why dont we all drive that then? it's not just about hardware. it's about the experience that you get on a daily basis. i can't stand some of the things in OSX..and it drives me nuts. and me being ocd and stubborn..i refuse to use it. is xp an overrall better product..probably not but you gotta go with something that doesnt piss u off everyday. i use my dell laptop for internet (forums, news, school), email, downloading movies/music etc. I am not an idiot..and I dont download r****ded toolbars and programs so I havent got a virus or spyware in forever. so just quit deciding what's better..and go with whats BEST FOR YOU! why can't we have 2 products that are equally good?
opps, i meant 5 reasons, but i can list the other five. 1.) price 2.) hardware dvd ejection. 3.) apple took away my power buttom from my powerpc, while this is trivial, the windows common api is much better, so i can do alt-f4 and alt-s to suspend (windows haves a short-key for almost anything). with a mac.. i have to use the mouse on the confirmation. this is irriating. 4.) comparative quality and quantity of open source software 5.) i have a powerpc powermac at work and i hear they're no longer going to support it with snow lepord. i usually have to update a whole osx to use software sometimes, i.e. bbedit instead of just software updates (outdated carbons). windows is usually really good about backwards compatibility.
I'm in the anti-mac camp, especially with now you can install Mac OS on a regular laptop. There is no reason to spend 1000 more bucks just because something is "cool". With the same price, you can get a lappy from Alienware which is much more powerful.
Funny, I don't remember saying anything about any specific comments. If you don't think think that stuff happens in a lot of places regarding Mac and PC issues, you are mistaken. Though, I have to say, 'overpaying to be hip' isn't exactly on the side of rational discussion points.
I guess you've ignored the rest of this thread. And to be fair you've mentioned the exact same sentiment, DrewP. You're insulting bias is obvious. Anyways, I can see where this thread is going looking at the other replies. Look, I'm not trying to convince people to buy a Mac. I could care less. The only advice I would give is to maybe open your options when you go computer shopping. That even includes Linux. Granted you need to be more computer-inclined, but I really like the latest Ubuntu (Hardy Heron) and it's the most user (read: grandparent) friendly yet. In the end competition is good for all of us (the consumers). I just wish people could be secure enough to enjoy their toys without having to put down other people who buy different toys. What's the marketing term for it? Buyer confirmation? And Rokkit was right (both about staying on topic and his advice). I think the Macbook is plenty powerful enough for most things, which includes audio production. If you're into photo/video editing you might want to consider a Macbook Pro. And if you're big into gaming, you'd also have to consider a Macbook Pro or better yet go to a Windows machine altogether.
Good for you. Again….good for you. If you prefer Windows, so be it. My point was to reflect on why so many people do, in fact, prefer the Mac when we live in a Windows world. I never had any issues with OS9, but that tech is so old there’s really no point in discussing it further. There are more Windows users for (at least) a couple of reasons: 1) Gates went to Jobs way back in the day wanting him to license the Mac OS to run on hardware other than that made by Apple. Jobs said no. Gates then created Windows to run on a variety of machines. Windows gained control of the world and the rest is history. And 2) people use windows basically because of reason #1. Its all they know, in other words. I'm sure plenty of people are happy, but the number of people 'down-grading' from Vista back to XP is rather....staggering. And while its a LONG way from taking over from Windows, the Mac does continue to gain in the market. I do still contend that as more people are exposed to Apple and the Mac they are going to switch. Blame it on looking “hip,” as someone said; blame it on the success of the iMac; blame it on Steve Jobs return to the company; blame it on the iPod. Blame it on all of those things because they’re all valid points that directly point to the success Apple has in the last 10 years. No one can argue with that. You’re missing the point. I don’t like that, as a Windows user, I HAVE to mess with those things at all. I’ve got anti-virus running. I’ve got a firewall running. I still have to mess with CCleaner, Spybot, and Ad-Aware on a regular basis. And while I am well aware that there are more viruses in large part because there are more Windows users, you are the first person I’ve ever encountered to say that the Mac is not inherently more secure. I’ve never heard that from anyone or read it anywhere. I'm not saying the Mac OS is impenetrable or invincible or anything of the sort, but based on everything I've ever known, read, and heard, the Mac is more secure. Again, you’re missing the point: I don’t WANT to have to mess with that. I don’t want to spend $1500 on a machine and then have to spend time taking off the crap I don’t want/didn’t want in the first place. I don’t know what to tell you about benchmarks. All I know is that I’ve read a bunch of conflicting stuff about the reliability of benchmark testing, and I’ve ignored the whole process for years. Maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong; I don’t know. I do know this: PC World (I think it was them) tested which computer manufacturer (hardware) ran XP the fastest. The answer was the Macintosh. Wait….HERE is a link saying Vista ran the fastest on a MacBook. I thought it was XP. Whatever. I’ve owned a PC for a couple years now, so I can’t comment on this with much authority. All I can say is that when I had a Mac, I never had any problems with any drivers or anything of the sort. Everything just worked the way it was supposed to. I’m not a computer gamer, though. I prefer consoles, so again, I really can’t comment. I never turned off or had to restart my Mac unless some software update/upgrade called for it. I have to restart my PC all the damn time. At least 3-5 times a week. All I use is: Firefox, iTunes, MS Word, and uTorrent, along with the Anti-this-that-and-the-other programs I have to run. You’re over my head with all of that. It sounds a lot like how you prefer your OS to look, feel, operate, etc. And of course, you’ve already said you prefer Windows, which is fine by me. Again, I’ve got an XP PC. Don’t like it. It runs fine, but I’ve got to do stuff to make it run fine, and that drives me nuts. I just want a computer to turn on and work. Don’t want to mess with all the crap Windows makes me have to mess with, but for now its what I’ve got and its what I’ll deal with. But I’m definitely going back to Apple the second I get the chance.
DAMMIT! Sorry....I meant to edit, not quote myself. Edit: HERE is another report, this one on XP running on a MacBook. Its from AppleInsider.com....don't know if that means y'all would believe it or not, but its interesting nonetheless.
i'm just pointing out a different prospective. if you like os x, more power to you. i didn't mean to imply windows is inherently more secure. i was implying, windows is just as secure for someone who knows how to use it... i.e. don't install toolbars and don't click on accept popups, etc. as for reliability, i've admitted os x is more reliable. however, this is negiable(sp) if you turn off your computer more than once a week. here's a link from a quick google search. http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6484737.html p.s. i don't like vista much mainly cuz i don't have the hardware for it. i was referring to xp in my previous posts.
another note, os x is not impregnable. it's based on the darwin distro which at it's core, is linux. that's why you have security updates. it's to pre-emp hackers who might actually take time to take advantage of them. still if more hackers cared, no os is bullet proof. anyways...it comes down to a matter of preference.
I never mentioned any specific comments either, we are talking about the general thread. I dont even understand what your second sentence means. A Mac/PC discussion sometimes turns into a fanboy flame war? No one is contesting that, I just don't see one here. and professorjay - an insulting bias? I came in here with preconceived notions about Macs. I hoped to leave with a better informed idea of why people buy them despite what seems to be a better alternative. I dont see the logic in spending the extra money. I am putting forth the best hypothesis I can form from my experiences. In my experiences, the grand majority of people I know that own macs either dont know **** about computers or, when confronted with questions regarding their purchase, give empty answers. Basically, they tell me they bought it because that turd from the movie 'Waiting' made fun of a nerdy fat guy with glasses in a commercial. (Which don't help the apple cause much in terms of legitimacy. They seem to be designed to convince the average uninformed consumer to buy Macs using a mixed bag of legitimate and vague problems with PCs and their software. Its like the Ipod and the Iphone. Both are very solid devices in their respective fields, but lets not pretend like either totally outclassed all the competition. People buy these products because they are hip and all their friends have them. ) Of course I am going to have a bias. But I am not dumb. I know there are probably millions of knowledgeable and competent people who purchase Macs for good reason. They are the people I am trying to get answers from. Anyway, I just realized that I got served. Just by explaining myself it appears this is now a fanboy flame war thread. Bravo gentlemen.
It's better because it can fit inside a manila envelope silly. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0ERgZ9dztk&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0ERgZ9dztk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
I love how people come in and discuss the misconceptions about Macs and use them as fact. Are Macs better built? I don't know, would you want to spend $2000 on an Acer laptop? I sure as hell wouldn't, but thats the third party in charge of primary production. Unix is more secure than Windows? Yeah, thats why Vista has 32 critical security points and mac has over 200 that can be hacked very easily. Plus, have any of you heard of a little programming language called Java? It's platform independent and there is spyware and malware specifically programmed on Java. I also hear a lot of the: there's more freeware and homebrew stuff for macs. Not true as well, there are more homebrew drivers and software for Windows than any other operating system. My macs (MacBook and iPhone) crash all the time and my Vista machine runs like a champ. If Macs were anything but a status symbol they would have greater than a 7% market share. If Macs were so secure government agencies would use them. If macs truely were kings of graphic design, more than those old fuddy duddies would use them for videos and movies. Little known fact, Star Wars was made on a PC. But I guess PC's crash far too much and lack in the power department. So someone come take away my Pc, give me a stupid OS and an on board graphics card. Take away my ATI graphics and gimme nice window transitions and let me stay stuck in 1987. Ultimately, those who buy Macs are too ignorant to really know how Windows works, those who blame their errors on Windows without understanding most of their problems come from a faulty chair to keyboard connection, and in the end, are the ones who go to the mac store, bend over and take it, and then feel like they did something.
lol. Drew, you give the 'I'm just trying to learn!' excuse while throwing out things like: Here's a clue. The first step to avoiding flame wars is to not throw out trolls like everyone who thinks differently than you are morons who can't work a keyboard and are dying to be 'hip' (whatever that means). And of course, I stand by what I said. All I had to do was read the first post to know it was already crapped up. Which, coincidentally, was by you. OP: Hey guys I'm buying a Macbook which one should I get? 1ST POST: Why do people overpay for something I can get in a 600 Dell? They are just buying it to be hip! Regardless, it isn't hard to figure out how these things will go. That was my point. Sure enough, Pizza comes in with the trolling he did in the previous thread like clockwork. Not shocking. Again, I didn't point out anything specific but you seem to want to make a big deal out of it, so there you go.
