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Lugar proposing $1 Federal Gas Tax Increase

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by BetterThanEver, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Change is difficult but not impossible. I grew up in Houston and as a teenager I couldn't wait to drive. I'm going to be 40 soon but I've been able to adapt to driving only about 9,000 miles a year living in a metro region with relatively poor public transport and a cold climate. A friend of mine just two years younger gave up his car a year ago and he works 20 miles from his home. In recent decades there have been a trend of many empty nesters selling their homes in the suburbs and moving into cities to enjoy the cultural opportunities and because services are closer.

    Living in a way that uses less energy and resources doesn't mean you give up your individuality or that you have to live on top of someone. This isn't a choice between living in Sugarland or Manhattan.
     
  2. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    This is going to take a LOT of time. Think about how long it took to build the rail from downtown to Reliant. Now multiply that times about 50.

    That is because most people are trying to economically survive the short term.
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    The first of anything is generally going to take longer and government projects by nature are slow. A lot of these changes though can be taken with small or even no government contribution. A lot of the revitalizations of downtowns in many cities has been driven by private development.
    In some cases yes but if you notice even in good times you don't see people thinking longterm either. I would even say our current crisis is largely brought about by the inability to think long term.
     
  4. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    This is true, but what are are talking about is significantly beyond that scope. When downtown Houston redeveloped, they built townhouses that sell for $200,000 to $250,000 each. That is not an economic reality for most people. Once you go outside those immediate areas, you get into some pretty iffy territory. What ends up happening is the well to do move close to work, have their expensive townhouse and send their kids to expensive private schools. The middle class still lives farther out. So add in a gas tax and the little guy loses yet again.

    Even in good times, the middle class lives paycheck to paycheck. In bad times they don't because often there is no more paycheck. It is hard to think long term when you are just trying to pay your bills.

    For a good many people, it is a delicate balance...add in an artificial 50% increase in fuel costs (with the corresponding increase in the cost of goods) and the house of cards crumbles.

    Some of the economic mess was revealed when gas prices hit $4 a gallon. That is not mere coincidence.
     
  5. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I can say for Houston but I live less than a mile from downtown Minneapolis and my neighborhood is solidly middle middle to low middle class. House range in prices from 150K to 300K and there are many condo's in the same range. With the condo boom and subsequent drop in prices there are many condos in inner cities that are affordable for middle class.

    As far as the middle class getting screwed I can tell you living near the center of the city saves me money as I don't have to travel so far for work and for services.

    Many of the middle class do even in good times but a lot of that is often do to too much discretionary spending and not enough saving. Higher gas prices contributed to the economic downturn but this is a crisis not of capital but of credit as a society we have become overly dependent on credit.

    Also to the extent that gas prices contributed to economic pain if our culture and transportation system wasn't so dependent on gas a lot of that pain could've been mediated. Gas prices are low now but gas taxes or not they are still likely to rise and gas is a finite resource. Whether we tax it now pain will come from higher gas prices eventually. My own opinion is it is better to deal with that sooner than later.
     
  6. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    I work downtown and 90% of the people on my floor don't live inside 610. Probably 60% of those either take the bus or car pool.

    Personally, I CHOSE to live in town. In my last job search, I had multiple job offers. I accepted the job closer to me but for <$ calculating the commute cost and time cost as factors. I LOVE my 10 minute commute.

    Living far away from work and driving is a CHOICE.

    Building better transportation will give citizens even more CHOICES.

    Give industries, like truckers, an income tax break. And companies that rely on transportation a tax break.

    For individuals, fund social security and lower our federal income tax rate. Don't decrease the SS and Medicare tax rate, however so we don't backrupt those systems.

    I like it. But I will agree that this puts more cash in the Federal treasury so we need to be sure taxpayers aren't getting a boondogle. But is doing nothing better than doing something? I dunno. I like to be proactive about things ...that's just me.
     
  7. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Yeah...I loved mine too. I wouldn't want to raise kids where I can afford to live in town though.

    I guess. On some level, I suppose raising your kids in an affordable but safe environment in the burbs as opposed to in a questionable area in town is a choice. Having kids changes everything. It is a crappy quandry to put parents of limited means in.

    Doing the wrong thing is not always better than doing nothing. I agree that something needs to be done. You just don't want to hurt the working class just to say you did "something."
     

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