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Looks like all signs point to Kubiak being fired.

Discussion in 'Houston Texans' started by Stack24, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Mattj

    Mattj Member

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    Not arguing your point, just telling you that three different current and former NFL defensive players and a Texans coach told me Mario would be wasted in a 3-4. It's not that he could not play 3-4 DE, it's just that you don't spend $100 million on a 3-4 DE because the premium production is rarely there. No one thinks he can play OLB.
     
  2. Egghead

    Egghead Member

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    What can the Texans get if they trade Mario? 1st and 3rd?
     
  3. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Sam, some of the fundamentals of the 3-4 are what they are. The alignments are not without restrictions because putting your DE only on the outside of the tackle creates an instant running gap. Teams would just run in that gap all day long for whatever yardage they could get before a linebacker could close it up. DEs and the DT have to engage blockers and they have to contain the edge.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Then they were dumbing it down for you, what they meant was wasted . . . as a 4-technique DE in a traditional old-school Bill Parcells 3-4.

    Watch this video of Bruce Smith...pause it on some of the plays that show pre-snap to see where he's lining up. Almost invariably, he lines up slightly outside the left tackle despite being a nominal 3-4 end. On the other side the Bills usually brought what looks like Daryl Talley or Cornelius Bennett) when they rushed 4.
    <object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gte5RPziaIU&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gte5RPziaIU&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

    The point is that when you have an excellent pass rusher, labels like OLB or 3-4 DE are kind of irrelevant, you can run either system and tailor it to their strengths.

    That's why when idiots like Gregg Easterbrook try to argue that Smith was greater than Reggie White "since Smith had to play DE in a much more difficult 3-4 alignment" - they should be punched in the face and told to shut up.

    Not if you shift your front over or under to that DE's side... OH NOES,....what's that you say?

    That looks like a 4-3 when you do that....Exactly....Hence the definition of multiple
     
  5. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

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    I was contemplating starting a thread about this very question even BEFORE Wade looked to be coming here. If Mario is going to be wasted as a 3-4 guy, then trading him for picks could help restore the defense ASAP. I'm sure we could get a corner, 3-4 NT and another pass rusher just with the picks Mario can bring back. It's a BALLSY move and that doesn't sound like the Texans but if they could just let go a little bit, this could get interesting.
     
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Are you able to have productive relationships in real life being a sarcastic ass all the time?
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    You didn't address the Bills of this year, who basically gave up on the 3-4 and switched to a 4-3 mid-season because they judged that they simply didn't have the correct personnel.

    And what makes you think Wade Phillips is going to be able to put together some super complex hybrid scheme for Mario Williams? As I recall he is pretty much the plainest of plain vanilla 3-4 guys out there.

    And while we're at it, Cowher seems, at least in my mind, to be fairly tightly wedded with the very well established Dick LeBeau/fire blitz 3-4 scheme that the've been running in Pittsburgh since forever that would require a fairly traditional two gap 3-4 end. I wouldn't expect him, as a pretty conservative guy, to suddenly take up novel and new 3-4/4-3 hybrid systems.

    I mean, certainly, you can design a hypothetical "3-4" system that would perfectly showcase all the players on the Texans. But is there any chance that the people mentioned would be inclined to do such a thing?
     
    #147 Ottomaton, Dec 30, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Or maybe they switched because the difference between the two is more semantic than appears to be popularly believed, facilitating an easier transition.

    uhh. sensitive much? Is an OH NOES really that offensive?

    To answer your Q, however, nah I'm usually able to distinguish between the context of a bunch of yahoos on intertube discussing the perceptual biases affecting silly things like pro football alignments and real life.

    I don't know much about what Wade or Cowher or whatever would hypothetically here...I can tell you taht in Bum (Wade too?) Phillips' version of the 3-4, the strongside DE line up outside the right tackle in the Tackle-TE gap, like any 4-3 end.

    FWIW here's a good illustration:

    http://www.scardraft.com/Phillips34.html

    edit: and by way of comparison, here's the traditional parcells version where the DE's are on top of, rather than outside of teh tackles.

    http://www.scardraft.com/Parcells34.html
     
    #148 SamFisher, Dec 30, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  9. HillBoy

    HillBoy Contributing Member

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    I happen to find the idea of an angry mob somewhat refreshing since it is a indication that folks still care about an inept football organization.

     
  10. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    If the case of Kubiak having more power and input than Smith . . .
    Can't blame Smith *AS MUCH* as Kubiak

    Rocket River
     
  11. Mattj

    Mattj Member

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    Comparing Mario Williams to arguably the greatest DL of all time seems a tad unfair. He's not as strong and sure as hell doesn't have the variety to his pass rushing moves. Find me a 3-4 DE in which a team is going to invest $100 million. (maybe Haloti Ngata and the Ravens play him on the nose a ton) The highest paid guys are all 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB's. You want to teach Mario about coverage schemes? I think he's a square peg/ round hole in a 3-4.
     

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