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Looking to OU-UT for 2003...

Discussion in 'Football: NFL, College, High School' started by kidrock8, Nov 20, 2002.

  1. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    I'm bored as hell at 3 AM, so I was wondering how the two teams matchup for next year. More than likely, the game will be between 2 top 5 teams, and possibly 2 top 3 teams.

    Looking at the OU depth chart, they literally return everybody on defense, except for Savage at CB. Antonio Perkins will more than likely slide in to replace him. I get the feeling that because OU only loses 1 Sr. on the 2-deep chart, that most of OU's top defensive recruits will be redshirted. OU is probably one of the top 5 defenses in the nation right now, next year they will more than likely be #1 defensively.

    Offensively, OU loses 6 starters. Fortunately for OU, one of those starters is Hybl. It looks like the offense will more than likely be as bad, if not worse than the current offense right now. Is Brent Rawls hurt or something? I see that true frosh Noah Allen and Paul Thompson are both co #2 QBs at the moment. I would be surprised if Tommy Grady, OU's QB recruit for this year, is able to start as a true freshman. OU will definitely need any QB to step up and take the starting job, rather than winning by default.

    Losing Quentin Griffin will hurt quite a bit. KeJuan Jones is pretty solid, but he's a different type of back than Griffin. OU's spread offense needs a tiny scatback like Griffin. I'm not sure how effective Jones is, when running those draw plays from shotgun that OU loves to run.

    At WR, OU loses Curtis Fagan, which isn't a huge loss. I assume that means that Will Peoples will get to start next year.

    Losing Trent Smith will hurt, as he and Griffin are big-time security blankets for the QB. However, OU has a decent JC recruit at TE who might be able to slide in nicely to fill Smith's shoes.

    OL looks to be shaky as usual, as OU loses 2 starters on the line.

    --------------------

    Looking at UT's depth chart, I notice that at LT and RG, UT loses both its starter and primary backup. Meaning that they will be relying on some young/inexperienced OLs from their "class of beef" from 2001. The OL is considered a weakness or sorts right now, and it could be worse next year.

    At WR, I'm 50/50 on whether or not Roy leaves early. The reason for him to stay, is because this year's expected WR draft class is stocked, meaning Roy would slip further in the draft, than in most years. His constant injuries could make him sway toward going to the NFL (take the money while you can), or could make him stay (if it hurts his draft stock). For that very reason is why I am 50/50 on if he leaves or not. If Roy stays, UT doesn't lose much at WR.

    At QB, obviously Simms leaves, for better or worse. Vincent Young should be able to make plays that Simms can't, via rollouts and improvising. My only question is whether or not Davis chooses to call the plays conservatively or not. If not, Young should thrive.

    At RB, Benson returns. I personally think he's slightly overrated, but nonetheless, he's a top 10 RB. Ivan Williams should return at FB, giving UT a FB who can make plays.

    All in all, the offense should be fine. The biggest question mark IMO is the OL.

    On defense, 3 seniors, Redding, Jackson, and Babers. Redding won't be as big of a loss as people might think IMO. I know that UT's scheme asks for him to "sacrafice" himself, but nonetheless, I don't think he makes enough of a presense consistently.

    If Rodrique Wright can continue to progress, then UT should be as solid at DT, as anyone in the nation, as he pairs with Marcus Tubbs.

    At LB, UT will return everyone but Jackson. From what I've seen of Mike Williams, he looks like he is greatness waiting to happen. Him and Johnson at OLB will singlehandedly eliminate the opposition's running attack outside the tackles. MLB is a question mark, as I think Reed Boyd sucks.

    In the secondary, they return everyone but Babers. I doubt Vasher leaves early for the NFL, as he would probably only be a 3rd round pick right now. The secondary is pretty young right now, especially at safety, so an extra year under their belt should help.

    -------

    All in all, both teams should be top 5 teams to start off the year. I'm glad that I've been able to waste 20 mins typing this. Now I am tired and will go to bed.

    Comments? Complaints?
     
  2. TheHorns

    TheHorns Member

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    I will respond if for no other reason than the fact you poured your heart into this at such a late hour.

    Response to OU:
    Its hard to say that the losses on the offensive side are a big deal as in all honesty, their offense has not been good. BUT they are losing 2 guys that are the best two (Griffin & especially Smith), the heart if you will, of the offense. They have been really good with mediocre offensive talent. Now they need to begin to recruit more offensive talent or they will soon begin to slip. Not next year though.

    Before two weeks ago, you would think that the D would be ok even if there were more losses b/c the coaching and depth there, but they have been exposed, but I do not think for a minute that will be a regular occurrence.

    Response to Texas:
    O line, expect Nunez to be gone as he will likely be the only coaching casualty in the program. B/c of that, expect much of the same from the offense as a whole.

    Your Roy assessment is right on. Just as soon as I am convinced that he is gone, I think... "no way, look at the draft... look at the injury riddled season..." (and so on). So toss a coin.

    If he goes, BJ & Sloan are capable guys, and there are 2 WR's who are at or near the top of every recruiting publication coming in next year (Limas Sweed of Brenham and Jimmie Sutton of Boca Rotan, Fla), so that will be fine either way.

    At QB, do not be shocked to see Mock start the season unless Vince has shown that he has completely grasped the entire playbook. Chance has had several years to memorize the playbook and though he is not as highly touted as Vince, he was still a very good HS QB who is capable of playing at that level, but does not have the star potential. If Vince does not start the season at QB, he will be starting by the mid point. Davis will continue to be a problem, however, next year could be his last if he is not successful.

    Defense, line will be ok, I feel Redding will be missed a little more than you do. When he was not in McClintock did OK, but I do not think he is the player that Redding is, but there is a chance that Pickryl could move to that side (or some one will be recruited).

    Babers will be a tough loss, there are a number of DB's that are waiting in the wings, but when you lose a guy who has pro potential, you suffer a pretty big loss. There are strong DB's in this recruiting class, look for Erick Jackson & Michael Griffin to get playing time next season.


    Next year's game (as the last two) did will be 70% play calling & 30% execution. That being said, what would you give your chances with GD making the calls?
     
  3. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    OU looks to be about the same as last year, only they have more experience.


    For UT, Aaron Harris should/could be starting at MLB. He looked like a monster in high school Why he isn't playing now, I don't know. But, the way UT uses their MLBs (as the 3rd DT basically), you could stick Butkus there and it wouldn't matter.

    I would be shocked if Mock wasn't the starter in the beginning. I think Mack is gonna reward age over raw talent. I think Young is better than Mock right now, but I'm also not a coach. Mock would absolutely explode internally if Young gets the nod. For that reason alone, I think Greg and Mack would go for Mock.
     
  4. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    If I was Mock, I would have gone somewhere that would have let me play.
     
  5. haven

    haven Member

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    UT will have more talent. OU will probably win. I sound pretty jaded, don't I ;).

    On a more serious note... I don't think it's really possible to analyze the match-up much. Personally, I think Mock will probably be given the opportunity to start. Not sure if he'll still be the starter by the OU game. We all know how well Mack handles QB controversies.

    The UT OL couldn't do anything but improve. And my guess is that they'll have a new coach. I think Davis will stay, but they need a sacrificial lamb... and the OL coach makes sense. The performance against Tech was nothing short of disgraceful.

    I think Roy Williams will be back. This year, he'd probably go as the #2 or #3 receiver on the board... despite having more natural talent than the others. If he stays, and continues to wrack up #'s, he could crack the top 5. Of course, he might be wary of a freshman QB.

    IMO, it'll boil down to QB play... and that's why I can't say anymore. The rest of b oth teams are generally so talented as to be a wash. Q beat UT this year... but he's leaving. Cedric Benson isn't a gamebreaker, and it's doubtful the new OU RB will be either.
     
  6. RiceRocket1

    RiceRocket1 Member

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    What is Mack's track record on rewarding age over raw talent? Oh yeah, that's right, he cost UT a national championship last year by going with raw "talent" (I think talent is more than how hard you can throw) over age and experience. Of course, Young doesn't have a famous father so that might make a difference...
     
  7. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Mock might be the "starter" heading into spring ball, but I guarantee you that VY will overtake him by the summer.

    Mack Brown is one of the best recruiters in the nation (duh), but I think the one guy he messed up on was Mock. During HS, I felt like he was pretty overrated, as he was considered a top 5 QB nationally. He was more of an option QB for The Woodlands IIRC.
     
  8. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    Major was injured and never got his job back. If Mack were to reward talent, then 2/3 of his LB corp would be true freshman. But, on the flipside, freshman do make mistakes.
    Also ,the "talent" disparity between Major/Simms is much smaller then Mock/Young. I wouldn't start Young over Major, if given the choice.


    Kid, you really think Mack will eventually start Young? I hope so. Things could get ugly, if he does.
     
  9. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    I thought it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he starts next year. Is the feeling in Austin, that it's 50/50?

    Perhaps Mock does start the year, but I will be shocked if he lasts the entire year. I've never been impressed with Mock. He has a great arm, but his touch is severely lacking. I think VY is already a better QB than Mock right now, assuming Mock hasn't developed into Joe Montana, while holding the clipboard on the sidelines. If Mock wins the job, it will be because he knows the system better than Young.

    If Mock starts, I get the feeling UT will play VERY conservatively on offense. Such continuing to throw the 5 yard WR screens, etc. Mock would make a nice backup, but I don't know if he's a QB who you want trying to make plays.
     
  10. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    Not seeing many Texas games this year and hearing great things about Vincent Young...has he even played yet?

    I know he'll probably be good, but had anyone seen him on the field, is he red-shirted?

    Just curious.
     
  11. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    He's redshirting.
     
  12. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    I sure don't want to see Boyd back at LB. He plays like all those John Mackovic/McWilliams era LBs that are just smart enough to get in the right position but way too slow to actually make plays.
    Go speedy, please.

    I don't think Redding will be missed that much. Despite having more talent that any UT DE in recent memory--he never had the impact of a Tony Brackens or maybe even Shane Dronett. I have seen 1 OT handle Redding plenty--inexcusable for someone billed as a pro stud.

    Roy W would be a huge loss. The difference between him and BJ/Sloan as the #1 guy is big.

    As for OU, their offense isn't very good this year. Is Jason White going to be the QB for them next year. Losing Griffin (more than a scat back, a very good inside runner) and Smith will hurt. They are fine at WR and OL--the latter has been very good.

    Is it a a sure thing Tommie Harris, Lehman and the corner opposite Savage return? I am not sure about Lehman, but the others are ready for the pros.

    Basically until we know about Roy, Harris and a few others it is too soon to know how they match-up.
     
  13. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Harris is only true soph, and therefore must stay. Unless he leaves early for the CFL or something.
     
  14. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Contributing Member

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    Redding is the heart and soul of the defense, who was asked to play a hybrid defensive end/cornerback cluster**** of a position most of his time here.

    He will be severly missed.
     
  15. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    Damn that sucks--he is the key to that defense. I thought Roy W left as a soph, but maybe he was RH.

    So Puedlfor, please explain more about Redding's role. What I saw a lot is him not putting much pressure on the QB even when single teamed. Most of the time in passing situations is his job not to just chase the QB in the quickest route possible?
     
  16. kidrock8

    kidrock8 Member

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    Roy W was a RS Jr. He would have been eligible to leave after his RS Soph year. You can't enter the draft, until your 3 years removed from HS.

    I'm not Puedl, but Redding often times has been used to drop back into zone coverage, which does limit his ability to make plays. This is one of many reasons why I think Bull Reese is a moron/overrated. If you have a DE who should be the #1 DE in the nation, why are you dropping him back in coverage?

    Nonetheless, I do think Redding hasn't been very productive at all. The blame could go to Reese before Redding.
     
  17. mduke

    mduke Member

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    Don't have much time now, but here goes a few OU notes...

    Offensively, OU loses 6 starters. Fortunately for OU, one of those starters is Hybl. It looks like the offense will more than likely be as bad, if not worse than the current offense right now. Is Brent Rawls hurt or something? I see that true frosh Noah Allen and Paul Thompson are both co #2 QBs at the moment. I would be surprised if Tommy Grady, OU's QB recruit for this year, is able to start as a true freshman. OU will definitely need any QB to step up and take the starting job, rather than winning by default.

    Rawls was hurt most of the year, but's healthy now....I seriously doubt that he'll be at OU next semester. If Jason White is healthy, he will most likely start the beginning of the year, since we play a very good Alabama team the second game of the year....but I think Paul Thompson will be the guy most of the year. They took him out of RS and he's the #2 guy this year.....Noah Allen will be a RS freshman next year, Thompson a sophomore.

    Also: I think Kejuan will do some special things.....he, like Griffin is very small(he's 5'9), and has some very good moves....Jones and Renaldo Works should fill in nicely for the loss of Griffin.

    At WR, OU loses Curtis Fagan, which isn't a huge loss. I assume that means that Will Peoples will get to start next year.
    OU loses Savage and Fagan.....look for Will Peoples, Travis Wilson, and Mark Clayton to start at WR next year.

    OL looks to be shaky as usual, as OU loses 2 starters on the line.
    1 of the starters wasn't a starter at the beginning of the year....Kelvin Chaisson will be a very good OL next year, along with Jammal Brown.
     
  18. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    Unless my memory is totally failling I saw Redding rush the passer a lot in the OU game and the Tech game, and to not do much damage--many times against single OTs. For a guy supposedly with the talent to make pro OTs look bad, to not make college OTs or even double teams look completely hapless is troublesome. A guy that good should be totally devastating whereever he plays at the college level.

    Again, I think the DE's Brackens and Dronett made a lot more impact with less apparent talent. But of course Reese wasn't the DC then. The funny thing is I think UT should have done more zone blitzes versus Tech. But shoot, do it on the other side and overload Redding side.
     
  19. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    All I remember, is everyone and their mother was after Harris. I thank u gotta be 21 to juon the toronto legue.
     
  20. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Contributing Member

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    '

    For the life of me, I htink Reddign lifted too many weights. He out grew his athletic ability. Regardless, I htink he'll be a 1st round pick.
     
    #20 gr8-1, Nov 20, 2002
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2002

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