If Lebron was a quitter with those numbers he put up, I wonder what do you call the dudes who can't ever bring those numbers in their life time? And I'm sure those frustration with his teammates had nothing to do with the whole West/Mom incident...
Oh Really??? Hmmmmm... <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HGoxIvuPtmo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Now someone claims he also quit in regular season games. Lol one series against Boston where people started questioning his effort has turned into people claiming LeBron quit against Orlando(which nobody questioned his effort at the time) and now apparently in the regular season.
kobe's more clutch than lebron. i don't understand why's there an argument about that? kobe may have missed many clutch shots, just like mj or reggie miller ... but when was the last time kobe missed a clutch FT that resulted in a lost game? once in a career maybe.
Geez, for those who have no clue, They were actually running some triangle sets instead of Kobe just jacking up shots. let me break it down for you 0:16 , you can see someone running off the double screen, but Kobe chose to take a three (bad shot) 0:26, I assume their first offensive set didn't work out because the shot clock was at 14. So they try to do a solo with Kobe and Walton. (they overload the weak side so Kobe can post up Walton without double teams) However Walton couldn't get good position. conclusion not Kobe quitting. Though Kobe could've gone to a pick and roll and with Turiaf. 0:33 I don't even get this one. This was a standard strong side entry pass by Kobe to start the triangle. Kobe either cuts to the strong side corner after this to form a triangle, or cuts to the weak side corner in order for a solo to be formed. conclusion, not Kobe quitting. 0:35 This one's not a triangle, just pick and roll with Kobe. They try to trap him so he passes it up. again pretty standard play. 0:38 This is what it's called a single double. The pg gets to the baseline and has a choice of using the double screen or a single screen. In this case he chose the double screen. Kobe was just a passer at the top in this play, he is suppose to pass it. As you see the double screen doesn't quite work here, so they opt to just pick and roll with Odom but ends up turning it over. 0:59 I don't know this one because it only shows the end when the shot clock is at 5. I'm guessing this is just a bailout play for Kobe 1:05 Probably the most standard pass in a triangle. You see the strong side triangle there. No.2 pass to the low post. Again not even close to a good example of Kobe being passive. I'm not quite sure about the next 3 plays, to my limited knowledge they aren't triangle sets, just pick and roll with Kobe. 1:54 Another signature play that Phil runs called the Blind Pig. Except Kobe held on to the ball instead of passing it to the guard (I can't tell who that is) that is running off a double screen. He instead chose to pick and roll because the weak side was now over loaded. 2:55 Again, standard triangle (a little bit skewed though). Kobe No.2 pass into the low post to Odom. Btw this pass is actually the best option to start the strong side triangle. There's a couple of more examples like that in the video, but you get my point. I'm by far no expert of the triangle. But even i can tell some of them were triangle sets and it was just Kobe doing what he was suppose to do. I just wish people would gain more knowledge before making stupid videos like these, and maybe learn more about basketball before throwing out words like quitting, or "pulling a Tmac"
Good luck with that. :grin: Nice post, though. Agree completely. But Lebron's nuts are so big (allegedly) that there will always be legions ready to hug them.
Maybe I know even less about the triangle than you do, but I thought it was based largely on off-ball movement and screens. In almost every play in that video, Kobe seems to pass the ball off then stand six feet behind the three-point line like he has his feet stuck in cement. I don't need that video to tell me that at the time, I certainly thought he had quit. He clearly wasn't playing with his usual intensity and he didn't seem to be 100% in the game. I think there's at least as much evidence that he quit in that game as there is that Lebron quit against the Celtics last year (that's what brought up this old Kobe game, after all), and according to most posters on this board, Lebron's quitting is now considered undisputed fact.
The argument absolutely only applies to certain players. Robert Horry was not a great. Rings separate greats from greats. Use your head.
I'm using it and it still doesn't apply. Look at your own statement, rings separate greats from greats? Yet Robert Horry has many rings, but is not great. The argument is still has no validity, no matter how well it may look in your head.
You have to be a "great" before the rings even come into the equation. Robert Horry is not great, so doesn't Even get to be in the conversation. Tim Duncan and Karl Malone... 2 great players. Same position, same type stats. So now these 2 are considered great, by everyone... Shawn Kemp is not in this category.... Correct? Now let's separate Tim and Karl.... Tim has 4 rings... 3 of those being the best player on his team. Karl has ZERO.. Tim Duncan over Karl Malone all day everyday. What part do you not understand?
I don't think anybody would say Russell is in the same basketball skill level as MJ. It's not always the number of rings that separate 2 players. Especially considering one played in the 60s, and the other in the 90s.
So we'll go by your argument. So what you're saying is that Bill Russell, who I think you would consider a "great" player, is better than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Chamberlain, and Larry Bird. Would you stand by that statement?
I'll get back on after work, I'm on my phone now. I will further educate y'all later on tonight. Be prepared to battle.
Tim Duncan was the best player on all four of those championship teams. Duncan also benefited from not running into the greatest player in the history of the game in two consecutive Finals appearances. You say in another post that you can't compare players from different eras, but Duncan and Malone peaked during very different times in the NBA. Malone was battling many of the all-time greatest players, while Duncan benefited from playing in some of the weakest years in the league, when the Lakers were the only other great team.
This was a long time ago, and I do agree Kobe looks a little outta it in that game from what I remembered. He was having a pretty bad shooting night I think and they were down by like 20+ in the third quarter. I don't remember the game enough to really pass judgment on whether Kobe quit or not, but the evidence offered in that video were really stupid because it shows Kobe actually playing within the triangle set, which a lot of times he refuses to do (chooses to ignore the triangle and just go pick and roll or iso). I mean were the maker of the video expecting Kobe to just outgun that Phoenix Suns team?
I thought that was "Kobe doin' work" or "Kobe being Kobe"? Wasn't Kobe outgunning the Suns what got the Lakers that 3-1 lead? That's what Kobe nutrider fans will tell you. And then his supporting cast (marginally worse than what Nash had BTW) is the reason the lost, right? See, you can't have it both ways. If you are going to bash LeBron for not winning with what he had in Cleveland, then you have to bash Kobe even more for not winning with what he had in LA during those three years. Because LeBron has done much more with much less. This is the only year they have comparable supporting casts.
