I totally agree. That nails it on the head. And the thing to note is the age gap. The advantages you point out here are ones that a smart player develops through his career. LeBron could (or could not) develop them. We shall see. I don't think he'll quite match Kobe in that regard, but I think his jump shot will develop, and his sheer power will be an advantage he has over Kobe. It's really hard to compare their styles, because they are pretty dissimilar. Man, I need to stop posting so much in this thread. I usually read and don't post, but this debate got me excited for some reason.
Wade at his peak is a crazy efficient scoring guard (and at 27PPG, hardly a relatively low volume shooter like Nash and Billips). His best years he takes both Kobe and Lebron in scoring efficiency, assists, and A/TO. (also also surprisingly takes them blocks and steals, except for Kobe's steals way back in 02-03). Also, his playoff MVP run was the best and most dominant playoff run by a non-big since probably Jordan during his 1st 3 peat. But don't know if we will see that Wade again, or even if we do whether Lebron adds some more polish and is better anyway.
i think lebron is better by a hair overall. kobe's scoring repertoire is vastly better, lebron's court vision and passing are vastly better. kobe has more skill, lebron is a freak like we've never seen on the perimeter. lebron wins the stat battle, but he does pretty much handle the ball every single possession so that's somewhat expected. lebron scores more now, kobe is more efficient (you can't just look at fg%, you have to look at true shooting %). as for their respective celtics series. they scored about the same, lebron won rebounds and assists, and were about even in steals. lebron did his with lesser offensive teammates which allowed the celtics to focus 100% on him (though they still focused about 90% on kobe) but also allowed him more chances to rack up stats. kobe's 40.5% wasn't good, but lebron was at 35.5% (with a truly atrocious first 4 games) and lebron turned it over way more. lebron was much bigger in the elimination game. lebron also got to face the much crappier version of the celtics. however you look at it, i'd say they were about even. of course, even if lebron does win the celtics, why just talk about the celtics series? why not go back to their other last common opponent, the spurs, which doesn't do lebron much good. the spurs kept both guys out of the paint and tried to force them to shoot jumpers, and it didn't work out well for lebron. he put up 22/7/7, which is nice, but turned it over 6 times a game, shot 35.6% (almost exactly the same as celtics), and got swept. kobe put up 29/5.6/4, only averaged 2.4 turnovers, shot 53%, and won 4-1 while absolutely taking over in the 4th in 2 of the wins. so to say lebron does better against better defenses or best in the biggest games seems kinda weird considering he's shot 35.5% against the last 2 really good defenses he's faced (and 41.6% and 41.1% in the last 2 playoffs overall). he certainly needs to get the efficiency up before he's head and shoulders above kobe.
If you are going to bring up the Spurs, than bring up Detroit. I have a feeling both the Pistons and Celts would say Lebron becomes the more difficult animal to contend with as series progress and adjustments are made (Wade when healthy too). Maybe the Spurs have a different opinion. But 1, the Spurs the Lakers got to face was a much different animal than previous Spurs playoff teams, and Lebron only got 4 cracks at them (but the last 2 games were decided by 4 points). On balance, particularly as series have gotten longer, Lebron has been the tougher out over the past 3 years.
true shooting % accounts for 3 pointers and free throws and is an overall measure of scoring efficiency. instead of just field goal attempts, it adds in a percentage of your free throws as an overall count of the possessions you used to score and then compares it to how many points you scored. the formula is TS%=PTS*50/(FGA+.44*FTA), though i've seen the .44 be another number like .47. so in this measure, being a good 3 point and free throw shooter, along with taking a lot of free throws, can help you a lot. since kobe is significantly better at 3's and ft's than lebron, he actually ends up having a better true shooting percentage even though lebron has a much higher field goal percentage.
well even if we're going with the theory that lebron gets better and kobe gets worse or levels off, the first games count just as much. i mean having a 7-20 performance being your best in the first 4 games of a series (lebron vs boston) still hurts no matter how well you end up doing in game 7. and while this was a different spurs team, they were still #3 in the league in defense this year and overall held the lakers offense down. ginobili certainly hurt their offense, but i don't see any real fall off from the defense that held lebron down. and while lebron last year against the pistons was certainly better than kobe in '04 against them, if we're talking different teams, then the hungry for respect, ben wallace pistons with the old hand checking rules were certainly a different animal than last years pistons. like i said, i already picked lebron by a small margin, but it's not as if he just goes against good D's and dominates. he puts up amazing overall pts/reb/ast numbers, but doesn't shoot well and turns it over a lot. his physique makes him a relentless force in a way kobe can't ever be, but he still has a ways to go in some areas.
I know, but I was not talking only about playoffs/finals. He is just better shooter than LeBron. I don't know why, I just don't like LBJ
Also, if we are going on the statistical argument, let's really use the best statiustics, and they usually favor Lebron (or at best "even" for Kobe). He was substantially ahead in net production (vs opponent) and on/off court this year. http://www.82games.com/ROLRTG8.HTM Now the playoffs was overall a wash (Kobe edged in net prod, James walloped him in on/off). http://82games.com/0708/playoffs/playoffs.htm For 06, James was also better in the playoffs.. http://www.82games.com/0607/playoffs/playoffs.htm --They were even in the regular season (and both much inferior to Wade's numbers). For 05 (this site only tracks +/- then, not net production), Kobe's 35PPG season, supposedly his MVP season he was jobbed of, +/- wasn't impressive at all (+2.8). Lebron wasn't great, but good (+9.4). Duncan, Manu, Dirk, Nash and Kidd were the 5 NBA players > +15. There are other interesting stats like the myth that Kobe is the more dominant player at the end of games. Rather, Lebron scores at a higher clip and beats him in most categories. http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM Overall, I am not going to say they is a huge difference between Kobe and Lebron. I do personally think Lebron is the better team basketball player, and I think the difference is magnified in playoff style basketball against good team defenses, but I am not going to say there is definitive statistical evidence for my as stakes/defense rise Lebron is even better view, there isn't enough data. What should be obvious however is the view that Kobe is without a doubt the best basketball player in the world, or right with Jordan, etc, are totally baseless homerism argument. Kobe is a great player, one of the best in the world, that is all I would say about him.
Lebron. He's just such a freak of a physical specimen that... well... it just ain't fair. Kinda like Dwight Howard.
Quite agree with you, LBJ is now the best player in the league, kobe... he is a wonderful player, but not a good leader of the team. Anyway, I think CP deserves the MVP better.
Until LBJ can shoot better than Rafer Alston from mid-range and 3-point land, I wont try to rate him.
