what's your point? please don't conclude that lebron is less skilled, please, that would be silly, he may not be as good a shooter, but that's where the less skill argument would end
If we're talking about who's a better athlete, Kobe for now, probably. But I feel like that's a lame, pointless debate that Vince Carter would argue for every time. Kobe is just as good of an athlete as Jordan, but does that mean he's just as good of a player? No. Kobe is way more athletic than Bird. Better player? Eh. Athletic ability is a subjective topic that has too many different factors. You can't compare Michael to Hakeem to Kobe to LeBron to Magic to Russell. Again, Vince Carter would be in the discussion every time for athleticism, if you were going to be fair. I feel like the more relevant debate goes outside of athleticism, because that wins championships and all that jazz (not Jazz, they don't win championships...corny joke!). Look at who seems to have those intangibles in the right places. And so it's easily LeBron. Just think about the way LeBron has acted so far in his career. He's been a great teammate, upstanding and respectable on the court, and still ferocious as a player. LeBron has that same swagger and sense of team unity and mental balance that Jordan and Hakeem had. It's the kind where he'll seriously murder the opponent, but he's a great teammate. It's a hard balance to find. Kobe never had that. He has tried to get rid of the beast in him that gets pissed off at those that are dumber than him on the basketball court, but he can't hold back his arrogance all the time. LeBron is just a better natural leader. From the get-go, he's seized the leadership role and effectively led terrible teams farther than you could expect him to. And we can debate which player has more talent, but it's hard to really conclude on that sort of thing. The fact is, a LeBron-led team is going to mesh better instead of being yelled at by Kobe. He has more patience, more poise, and he doesn't let all of that stuff get to his head as much. Kobe just has to turn down the think-tank just a bit. LeBron just needs a better team. There were reports that Kobe was basically cussing out Phil Jackson on the sideline during the Finals. LeBron would not be so disrespectful to a coach. He'd debate with him, he'd reprimand Drew Gooden for being an idiot, but more like an older brother, not like Kobe. Also a funny little thing I noticed. All of Kobe's career, he's only had good defensive teams when Shaq was around (if you could call those "good"). Otherwise, his defenses have been laughable. LeBron has had very good defenses, despite having subpar teammates. Now I'm sure that's just circumstantial and has to do with the way the teams were assembled, and LeBron's teammates are actually grittier and better defenders than we give them credit for, but it's still interesting to note.
Look at how they played against the Celtics. If we're going to talk about finishing games and being clutch, Kobe did it against the Spurs, but otherwise, he hasn't been unbelievably overwhelming. LeBron got shut down by the Celtics the first couple of games, but he said "hell no" and broke out of it, going insane for four games in that series. At the brink of elimination in Game 6, Kobe let his team lose by 40. LeBron delivered possibly the most insane playoff dunk I have ever seen. "Oh, but the Cavs were at home." Game 7, Boston. LeBron battles Pierce and goes for 40+ to try to win, but the better Celtics team prevails. The Cavs were closer to beating the Celtics than the Lakers ever were. Why? Probably the defense, but LeBron was way better than Kobe.
I am going to respectfully disagree with you bit. I think LeBron is a superior athlete to Kobe. He's already bigger than Kobe, Lebron is almost 260 and very close 6,10. And, he can move like a cat. Also, he could've easily ended up in the NFL and became all-pro Tight-End. I will say I don't know how great his hands are, but I think he is easily a better (higher) jumper than Randy Moss and Antonio Gates (who didn't play very much in college). Kobe is, too. But, he is not physically built, like Lebron is. Back to James, he might be just as fast or maybe close to the speed of Antonio Gates and even be faster than alot of starting TEs. I think his body is built for the NFL and he looks like he could take alot of punishment from violent hits. Lebron is not the same shooter as Kobe, but he is a better dribbler, ball-handler( it seems to come natural to him), better (more willing passer), and extra size/height gives him added advantage. When he plays to his size, I think he can be harder to guard. I will even say I think he is more driven. I think he can play better when his team is down or behind in series.
"LeBron was way better than Kobe" against the Celts? You "way" overstate what happened. LeBron's game 7 was stellar, especially that it happened in the deciding game. I agree he had a better series though it's debatable. But let's not exaggerate off the deep end.
Okay...i guess i'll have to go with stats since thats all some of you guys seem to understand. Lebron shot 35.5% fg and 23% 3pt against the celts, Kobe shot 40.5% fg and 32% 3pt against the same defense. I don't know what everybody's smokin' either, Lebron had BETTER shooters around him in Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West. Lets also not forget the HUGE gap in defense. Kobe is also better on the drive than Lebron cause he has more moves to get there and lay it up. I've said it before but Lebron still scores mostly by quickness and strength. If he was Kobe's size, strength and speed he would be Corey Maggette.
This is a joke, right? How can it be closer? Did Kobe age during this week? Did LeBron do something that made him better that I'm not aware of? Your comment perfectly sums up this thread. It shows how biased people are. And when something happens that clearly goes against their opinions and beliefs, it's 'Hey, the situation has changed!' instead of 'Hey, maybe I was wrong!'. To me, 6 games wouldn't be enough to decide that one player is now better than the other (well, maybe if they played against each other). I find it funny that people are dropping Kobe from MJ hights to LeBron lows. Neither of the series changed the order for me despite Kobe having a better series.
Save the petty arguing for someone else. I made some pretty basic comparisons on the players overall. I'm not talking about a specific playoff series. I only mentioned their respective teammates to EXCLUDE the relevance of each performance against the Celtics. If we're judging these guys overall I wouldn't put so much emphasis on 5/7 games apiece. And clearly you're in the Kobe camp...I think my inclusion actually helps your argument. The Cavs defense helped keep the Cavs games closer. And watch some Cavs games, Lebron is incredibly agile and has handles, this constant implication he only bulldozes his way down the lane is ignorant. There's a reason many people thought Lebron should be a point guard ala Magic Johnson when he came out of high school. And I'm not the one making it seem like there's this big gap between the two. Arguing between Lebron and Kobe's driving ability is like arguing who's 1A and 1B...(ok, there might be two or three other guys worth throwing into the mix.)
its not even close....Lebron is too bad of a shooter. Most people don't realize that his drives to the basket average out his real FG% because he is so crappy at jump shooting. Say NO to Lebron James the poster boy of the NBA!
Jesus Christ...smh. So Lebron shooting 48+% is worse than Kobe shooting 46%? Ok...even if LeBron scores more points per shot? I guess Rafer shooting 40% is all right since he doesn't let high percentage shots mask his 'real FG%'.
I meant his jumper... Guys go their whole career, 3000 FTs without airballing a FT and this guy does it in the NBA finals. Kobe is on a different level atm. Lebron's greatness is being blown out of proportion due to the path he had to the finals. Wizards Bulls Pistons who are utter crap play down to their competition every year and that 30 pt game from a ROOKIE really helped too. If you actually watched the series you could see that apart from the 50 pt game Lebron was crap. We saw straight threw him in the finals vs the spurs. Kobe? Every team he played was a 50+ win team in the playoffs
The reason why he was (and pretty much still does) played PG was because of his stellar passing ability and court vision. He has the best handle i've ever seen from someone his size but the problem is he doesn't have the moves. I was a Lebron fan up until about the last season and a half when i noticed he was too dependant on his gifts. I'm not a Lebron hater, if he had the offensive skills of D wade and Kobe mixed with a little better D he would be the best player ever. Everyone has their flaws. Why does it bother people to say a 6-9 and 260lb monster lacks the skills of a comparable player? It seems a little obvious to me.
Ray Allen will be the 1st to tell you he got more space and clean looks vs the Lakers than in the previous 2 series, part. vs Cleve. Cleveland plays better defense than the Lakers and have Lebron, that is why they and only they were within a play of beaten them. Lebron over the course of the series and after both teams' adjustments was more of a factor, a more effective and dominant player, the opposite for Kobe. You look at these series (throw in Det-Bos, also played at a very high level) and there is no doubt Lebron was the most dominant individual player once the comp got higher. Kobe is probably #2, but then you get an argument from Pierce. But no argument who the best player in the highest caliber games were this playoffs. I agree with this. Against bad to average defense and lots of open looks, Kobe is probably the better player, certainly the better scorer. Kobe has a much purer jumper. But againt top notch defenses, defense that bring help, have good rotations, and don't give opponents lots of space, Lebron is better. Same with Wade 2 years ago. Lebron and Wade (when healthy) are just the 2 best individuals at breaking down excellent team defenses from the outside in. In this case phenom driving ability and teammate recognition and court sense counts more than more range on a jumpshot.
Wow you people are quick to bring up all sorts of stats like this is some sort of math competition. All I was trying to know by starting this thread is whether people think LeBron is better than Kobe and should he named the best player in the league. Honestly I couldn't careless who you prefer but I am tired of listening to the mainstream media especially during the Finals and the commentators saying Kobe the best player in the world every time he dribbles the ball down the court. Sorry but Kobe has achieved nothing in this league especially on the big stage to be unanimously granted the title of best player on the planet. IN my own opinion I think LeBron has earned that distinction after the series with the Pistons last year and his performance in the playoffs this season.
About the jump shooting...when Kobe came into the league, his jump shot was not good. He worked at it. LeBron is working at his, and it's gotten a lot better. I'm just saying...you never know. And field goal percentage is field goal percentage. Who cares how he gets it? Kobe drives to the lane a lot too...he shoots more free throws than almost anyone. In the last four years, LeBron has averaged over 47% from the field (usually above 48), while Kobe has never been above .469 and usually floats around .44. And again, I don't believe stats can tell the complete tale. I think other things play too much of a factor and statistics will just end up being split hairs. But if you want to...did Kobe average 28, 7.8, 7.6 at age 23? Of course, he had Shaq, so that didn't help. But then, has he EVER done it since? Yeah, Kobe had the 81-point game and the 35 point season, and that was phenomenal. But overall, I think LeBron will statistically shoot a higher percentage, and he's already beat Kobe's career high assist and rebounding averages. Kobe barely ever goes above 6 assists or 6 rebounds, while LeBron started beating those in this 2nd year. Again though, splitting hairs. I don't feel like it can matter as much. Here is more what I'm getting at. At this very moment, maybe Kobe is a better player. But when it's all said and done, LeBron James will have made a bigger mark and be known as the greater player. The tough thing about this comparison is the 7 year gap. I just feel like if they were both starting off, and I knew what I know now, I'd take LeBron as a franchise player over Kobe, because LeBron will eventually win more because he's just a way better leader. I don't want Kobe almost killing my coach.
Actually, you know what? I refuse to get into the statistics arguments anymore, even though they favor LeBron. Why? Because when it's this close, they mean nothing. Examples... Stockton is the assists and steals leader. Better than Magic? No. Karl Malone is second in scoring. Better than Jordan? No. Of course those guys are very good players, and that's just one stat, but it shows that stats can't really tell the tale of how Jordan was an incredible force of nature while Malone was not. Robinson edged out Hakeem in stats in 1995. We all know how that turned out.
I'll weigh in here... From a pure offensive skill standpoint, Kobe exceeds Lebron. The amount of dribbling moves and combination of pull-up, fadeway, turn-around jumpers that Kobe employs in his repertoire makes Lebron's offensive game look immature. However, Lebron is by far a more gifted athlete, which allows him to make up for the skill deficit right now. Lebron is also a better passer.
I agreed on Wade. His deadly mid-range shot, athleticism/quickness and finishing ability put him in a class by himself. I would have loved to have seen him against the Celts in the ECFs.
