Actually, there are a lot of quantitative arguments that can be used to show that Lebron is a better player than Kobe. There is only one such argument in Kobe's favor (number of rings) and that is very dependent on teammates -- where Kobe has enjoyed a huge advantage over Lebron -- and age, where Kobe again has the edge. What I think, you think, ESPN columnists (who are generally idiots) think, or t_mac1 thinks about who will be the best player on this team is completely irrelevant in August.
When comparing Kobe's Lakers to Lebron's Cavs shouldn't we be comparing the teams as constructed when each player made their move(demand)??? What does who Kobe has on his team now have anything to do with what his team looked like when he wanted out?? What does Lebron's team 4 years ago have to do with what he was leaving behind?? When each player decided they wanted a change of scenery, Kobe had Smush Parker, Luke Walton, and Kwame Brown starting beside him. Lebron had 2009 all-star Mo Williams, an older Shaquille O'Neal, big Z, and Anderson Varejao. Talent level is heavily skewed to Lebron's side. Lets not forget that Lebron was in the East which until the Celtics got KG and Allen was horrible. Kobe in the west faced tougher competition just to get into the play-offs. That being said, both could have handled their situations better.
Interesting how Kobe stopped whining as soon as his team got stacked. Yes, both could have handled their situations better. Kobe could also shutup instead of criticizing another player.
Stacked? Lakers made one move. Cavs tried everything to appease LeBron, he even was consulted in some of the moves they've done. But in the end he couldn't get it done in Cleveland so he's gonna take shotgun to D-Wade now
Got stacked? Kobe stopped whining as soon as Bynum played better than Kwame. That's before Gasol arrived and the team topped the west nonetheless. They were a good team, but when Fisher started at 1, Radman at 3, Bynum couldn't get out of injury, it's not really stacked.
Shouldn't we also take into account the fact that Kobe was playing for a franchise in one of the league's most popular destinations and for a front office that had already put together a roster capable of winning multiple championships within the previous 8 years?
Kobe asked to be traded from a team that was constantly being beat in the first round of the hard as nails West. Lebron left his team in free agency when they were the highest winning team in the league two years in a row in the easy as pie East. Kobe a significant player on HIS team to win. Lebron joined WADE'S team after they got Bosh to win. More recently, Kobe signed his extension (which was enormous) with little fan fare. Lebron had an hour special on ESPN to announce he was leaving his home team only after spending an entire two years hyping his own free agency. Look. I'm not the biggest Kobe fan but Lebron really proved something about himself this summer. Sure, Kobe got lucky to get Gasol but that wasn't his doing. It was Kupchak's doing. Kobe didn't join Gasol neither did he explicitly ask for him. See, every NBA player wants to win. It's stupid when they say that's what they want as though they WANTED to lose. The difference is people like Kobe and Magic and Olajuwon and Jordan didn't seek each other out to be better than the competition by default. If they were traded together they wouldn't complain (maybe) but they sure didn't SEEK to play together. What Lebron did is the equivalent of using a turbo controller in Street Fighter. Sure, you still have to try and use some skill to win, but you start out with a natural advantage that others can't (or won't) match. Imagine if you were playing a pick up game of basketball at your local gym and all the best players wanted to play with one another and didn't care about competition patting themselves on the back and talking about how great they are even before the game began. What would YOU call those guys?
I call that Game Two, dummy. If you had bothered reading the post you quoted trying to make nolimit look foolish, you would have seen he said GAME SEVEN three times, and wouldn't have ended up making yourself look foolish. Or were you just trying to convince the rest of the board they should s*** Kobe's d*** too? Great One 1978, hmmmm... Lemme guess, "great one" is Kobe and 1978 is his birth year? Gay. I swear, you Kobe sackriders really make clutchfans look weak. Yall should take the Kobe circle jerk over to lakersground and stop infecting our board with your fagdom.
Lol @ "Cavs tried everything to appease Lebron" If signing a washed up 38 year old Shaq, and 34 year old Antawn Jamison was the Cavs version of "trying everything" I would have bounced the f*** out of Cleveland too. And besides. It's Cleveland. That city SUCKS. Period. Their claim to fame is that they're "not Detroit". If
Who talked with management to make those deals happen? LeRobin. So too bad they didn't throw in JJ Hickson to get Amare back in Feb. Season's bout to start, LBJ going on Wade's team in hunt for a title because he couldn't do it as the MAN. I just hope after he fails, he doesn't make another excuse like his phantom elbow injury.
If Lakers didn't get robbed in game 2, would there be game 7 at all? When you talk about foolish you should look into mirror.
Immediate favorites to make the finals would be more like it, even though I think a championship is probable. You don't have JVG saying every year how there will be a 75 win team, or whatever it was. And he's not saying that because of Mike Miller. The 'ignoring' part of my post was over the top, I apologize.
I really don't think wanting better supporting players is the same as joining an all-star team. Sorry, I just don't. I think the motivations of the two players couldn't be more different, and to me it seems pretty obvious. Do you really think someone who ran Shaq out of town b/c he wanted to be the man really has the same motivations as LBJ? I mean just winning championships wasn't enough for this guy. Meanwhile LBJ just wants to pretend like he's Yates against Lee HS and joke around with his buddies instead of accomplishing anything meaningful. I think all he had to do was win 1 or 2 championships and he would be right up there with the all-time greats due to his stats. Boston would have eventually gotten too old just like Detroit did for Jordan.
This is incorrect. Kobe asked for a trade in Summer of 2007. As soon as the season started, he would not talk about the trade again. Pau Gasol did not join the Lakers until February 2008. So Kobe didn't leave, whine or make things difficult for the Lakers once the season started...and that was before he even knew Pau would ever join the Lakers. Lebron left a stacked team 2x 60 win team, Kobe shut up and played as soon as the season started and Pau showed up 5 months later.
At the start of 2007, he had the same team and ceased with his trade demand. He played with pretty much the same 1st round exit team he had the previous year. Pau Gasol didn't join the Lakers until Feb 2008. The question is answered right there, Kobe shut up and played with the same team. He didn't leave to join another star. Another star came to join him in 2008. And don't forget, it was "Ga SOFT" (0-12 Playoff games) that joined the Lakers, not the Pau Gasol that is now considered one of the best big men in the NBA.
Kobe was demanding a trade while he was still under contract. Lebron left a team when he had every right to do so as a free agent. And yet the guy who's just exercising his rights and not trying to shirk his contractual obligations is the one who is vilified.
Allen and Pierce combined to shoot 8-29, from the perimeter. Allen 3-14 on mostly open shots. The only players on either team who shot a good % were Garnett and Rondo, who take most of their shots inside. It was a defensive game, in addition to the large majority of the players just having a bad shooting night. If Allen or Pierce have even an average game, Boston wins. As you noted, the Lakers won because they dominated the glass, with Kobe and Gasol outrebounding the Boston starting lineup, and because Bostons players were shooting as badly as LA's were. When you dominate the boards, and the other team is scoring under 80 points, you have a chance to win no matter what your lineup is.
He stopped whining as soon as Andrew Bynum proved he was worth something. The trade demand was backed off well before Gasol was acquired.
