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Kerry's recklessness disrupted Vietnam missions, former commander says

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Dennis2112, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. Dennis2112

    Dennis2112 Contributing Member

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    Very interesting article.....

    http://savannahnow.com/stories/082404/2394687.shtml


    Kerry's recklessness disrupted Vietnam missions, former commander says

    Former commander weighs in as part of group claiming Democratic candidate embellished war record.

    Larry Peterson

    A Savannah man in charge of some of John Kerry's boat patrols during the Vietnam War says the young Navy officer's reckless conduct sometimes disrupted missions.

    "I had a lot of trouble getting him to follow orders," said Tom Wright, who - like Kerry - served on 50-foot Swift Boats that prowled rivers, looked for trouble and often found it.

    Wright is in the thick of the ongoing mudfest over whether the Democratic presidential candidate embellished his war record.

    After the Swift boat commander repeatedly balked at his instructions, Wright said, he persuaded a higher-up to transfer Kerry to another unit.

    "I wasn't going to take dysfunction," Wright said. "... You're not going to reduce the safety of the rest of your people for something like that."

    Wright is a member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which says two of Kerry's three Purple Hearts were for accidentally self-inflicted wounds not suffered under hostile fire.

    The group also disputes Kerry's contention that he was sent on an illegal foray into Cambodia, a mission the future U.S. senator later said convinced him the government was lying about the war.

    Following its pattern concerning the other charges, Kerry's campaign offered only a general response to Wright's contentions.

    "This account," said spokesman Anthony Coley, "is different from Kerry's crewmates and the evaluation from his commanders, who said he was 'unsurpassed' and 'one of the top few.'"

    Coley repeated the campaign's demand that President Bush condemn the Swiftvets "smear campaign."

    "This is a front group for the Bush campaign," Coley said "They are proven liars. The American people want an honest debate about health care costs, jobs and the economy - not smears."

    Coley also said "official U.S. Navy records" - the accuracy of which the Swift Boat veterans group challenges - "prove their charges false."

    Lastly, Coley cited news reports that the Swift Boat veterans group "funded by Bush donors and longtime Republican donors."

    Despite those responses, experts such as Emory University political scientist Merle Black say the flap has put Kerry on the defensive.

    "It's a big deal," Black said, "because Kerry has made his war record the centerpiece of his campaign."

    It's the campaign that has refocused Wright - who moved to Savannah after he retired from the Navy in 1987 - on Kerry.

    In Vietnam, Wright said, he was typically in charge of patrol missions including three to six Swift Boats, including "four or five" in late 1968 and early 1969 involving boats commanded by Kerry.

    Wright said Kerry refused to coordinate the fire of his .50 caliber machine guns with the actions of other boats on the same patrol.

    Wright added that the standard procedure was for a boat commander who saw suspicious activity to radio him and say he might have to fire.

    He said he would shift the boats ahead of that vessel so that they could provide supporting fire and maneuver others so they could cover it from behind.

    "That's good," he said. "That's the way you run it. ... It works."

    But it didn't work that way with Kerry, he said.

    "I'd be running along," Wright said. "All of a sudden this boat slows down and shoots. ... I've got a boat I think is in trouble and everybody is focusing on him instead of getting the crossing fire protecting the flank. ... So instead of having a good mission, I've got an obstruction.

    "I tried a couple times to get him to do it the way he was supposed to do it. And I just couldn't talk to him. He'd say, 'Oh, my radio wasn't working.' Or, 'Oh, I didn't see that.' "

    After Kerry left Vietnam, Wright said he and fellow officers forgot about him until he joined actress-activist Jane Fonda in denouncing the war and accusing Americans of atrocities.

    "That really bothered a lot of us," he said.

    Wright, a marine consultant and a former manager at the Intermarine boat yard, said he's not a Republican activist. He acknowledges having given campaign money to U.S. Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Georgia, and U.S. Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, but not to Bush.

    Wright, 61, said he kept in touch with fellow Swift Boat veterans via a Web site. Some of them recruited him earlier this year to join the anti-Kerry group.

    Wright acknowledged that Kerry's war record doesn't matter much in Georgia, since Bush is expected to carry the state easily.

    But he said advertisements about the veterans group's charges have been airing in Ohio, Wisconsin and other battleground states.

    Wright said he's confused by the response of the Kerry campaign, which has tried - with little success - to keep the ads off the air.

    Indeed, Kerry spokesman Coley pressed Bush to intervene.

    "This is George Bush's moment of truth to step up and denounce these ads," Coley said. " ... We don't want to hear his empty rhetoric about veterans. We want him hear these three words: 'Stop those ads.' Anything less is unacceptable."

    Wright said such "strident and determined" demands don't help Kerry.

    "If I were a Kerry strategist," he said, "I think I would ignore it. If it were ignored, no one would talk about it."

    Charles Bullock, a professor of political science at the University of Georgia, disagrees.

    Bullock said the vagueness of Kerry's responses leave him vulnerable.

    "I think he needs to sit down with someone like (talk show host) Larry King and go over all this stuff point by point," he said. "There's a saying that a charge unanswered is a charge proven. ... I think Kerry has some more answering to do."
     
  2. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    I like my Whataburger with cheese, no onions, and extra pickles.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    First, whole milk is poured into large containers called "bassines normandes" (Norman bowls). The aim of that stage is to make the milk coagulate/curdle. In conditions that are different in every dairy, the rennet* is added to the milk, and one should wait 1h30 before the beginning of the next step. At the end of that period, the milk has formed into curds.
    *Rennet is an enzyme that reduces the time necessary to separate the liquids from the solids.

    Then comes the moulding. This is particular to camembert, because the curdled milk should be put in the mould with a special ladle, in at least four time (That operation lasts often more than 4 hours!). Extreme caution should be taken to prevent the curds from being shaken.

    The next step is rather easy in comparison. The curds are perfectly levelled in the mould.


    To drain off whey, the futur camembert is put on shelves, for four to five hours and then turned over.

    The next morning, the camembert, which has now its final shape, is taken out of its mould, and set on a tray in a salting room. There, it is covered on both sides with a thin layer of salt and finally with a precious fungus "penicillium candidum". That fungus replaced the genuine "penicillium camembertii" that was sometimes responsible of blue moistures on the cheese.

    The active part of the making is now over... Nevertheless, the camembert is not yet ready for consumption, it should be placed on special shelves "les haloirs" for approximately 12 days .

    Finally it is packed in its famous wood box, and sent to the consumers.
    After 21 days, it is said to be "affiné" (refined) and "à point", 30 to 35 days after its birth.
     
  4. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Contributing Member

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    Let's see here...

    I've counted 453,897,124 stories on alleged minor discrepancies in Kerry's decorated military service.

    I've counted 4 stories on why Bush was literally missing from National Guard Service.



    Kerry's military record is very much fair game. As is Bush's, and the public has every right to know what they did or did not do. But shouldn't we be discussing, I dunno, what the candidates will do about the WAR WE'RE CURRENTLY FIGHTING?
     
  5. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    The Dems just aren't getting their money's worth out their PR budget then.
     
  6. HAYJON02

    HAYJON02 Contributing Member

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    Yeah, this is getting borderline obsessive-compulsive.
     
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    Hey! But it keeps us away from...

    stem cell research
    jobs
    the economy
    healthcare
    gay rights
    the environment

    you know! unimportant stuff...
     
  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    Had Kerry not shamelessly bragged about his service, none of this would have been an issue. Then the Swiftees started uncovering all of Kerry's lies, and the next thing you know, Kerry is weakening severely in the polls. I believe Kerry gave himself a self-inflicted wound with his over-the-top military boasting at the DNC. Maybe he could write up the after action report again and give himself a 4th Purple Heart. Nah, I take that back -- this wound isn't superficial enough to apply. It's DEEP.
     
  9. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Contributing Member

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    Bush creates a palpable environment of perpetual war and terror, using unprovoked military force to invade, overthrow and occupy two seperate sovereign nations, and warning Americans that terror could strike at any moment. We're fighting a war right now -- a war that will certainly influence millions of voters.

    But *Kerry* is using military service as a campaigning device.
     
  10. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    Well, if the war in Iraq is so unpopular with the American people, how could Bush possibly use it to influence millions of voters?
     
  11. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    Didn't you get the memo from Rove?

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../ap/20040827/ap_on_el_pr/bush_14&sid=96378798
     
  12. 4chuckie

    4chuckie Member

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    These are all fine but let's hear Kerry make them a centerpeice AND tell us what he can do to improve them AND how he will pay for them.

    Kerry's campain so far is "I will be a better commander in chief" and "I will help the middle class" and honestly I have no idea why he would be an upgrade despite all his ads on either front. To me he should be campaigning for "I was in the Military" and "I'll tax the rich" and that makes me good despite the fact people are questioning my military record and I married a woman worth millions.
     
  13. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Excuse me there, Slick. I would call blowing up two very large manhattan buildings and killing thousands of americans 'provocation.' I'm all for condemning these stupid attacks on Kerry, but don't go overboard.
     
  14. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Contributing Member

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    America was absolutely provoked into retaliation against the attackers. Those dickless idiots should rot in hell. But instead of retaliating against them, we attacked two countries that had relatively nothing to do with Sept. 11, 2001.

    Most of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, they were funded by Saudi Arabia and they trained in Saudi Arabia, but we attack Afghanistan (who we already planned to attack well before Sept. 11, 2001) and Iraq. So while we've been chasing oil pipelines around the world, the offending terrorists have skated.

    But still Bush continues to use Sept. 11, 2001 as justification for perpetual war. Hell, he's even called himself a "war president."

    Given these circumstances, I'd say the military and its usage are issues that Kerry has every right to question. Kerry's been to war, Bush has not.
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don't have any problem at all with invading Afghanistan. The main problems I have there is that we pulled resources away for the invasion and occupation of Iraq, an optional war made because Bush wanted to. We have underfunded the aid needed and promised to Afghanistan and have not kept as many intelligence assets there as are needed. Or, a sufficient number of troops. In my opinion, of course.

    We had overwhelming international approval to invade Afghanistan. Where is that approval now?

    The answer, my friends, is blowing in the winds of Iraq.
     

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