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[Jordan/Bulls Documentary] 'The Last Dance'

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by J.R., Apr 16, 2020.

  1. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    Many people have viewed the skill of karl Malone on same level as lebron so for Jordan to beat jazz twice is big time!
     
  2. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    He’s one of the few guys who can claim they got more than Jordan.
     
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  3. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  4. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    More with less? Did he just insult himself?
     
  5. jim petersen84

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  6. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    Looks like Channing Frye sticking up for LeBron.

    Alot of people never have liked Jordan or never will like jordan.

    Jealousy over the Jordan sneakers because their family never afford Jordan sneakers.

    Some people felt Jordan held Chicago hostage.
     
  7. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    All he has jordan on statistically is accumulated stats totals as he's played longer, and so will many others. MJ, Magic, Bird and other guys who really only played slightly over a decade will not sniff the top 10 in totals in a few decades. Using that is the same as saying Karl Malone (and Kareem) is a better scorer than MJ or Mark Jackson is a better assist man than Magic or Harden is a better shooter than Allen or Miller(Harden will probably end up #2 all time 3pt fgm). Or Westbrook and Rafer Alston have more range than Bird.

    As a per game result, MJ statistically leads LeBron in more categories. LeBron leads in the categories he should lead at and not by much on career avg. 1.2rpg more given the difference of positions and an overall league wide increase in rpg from perimeter players due to traditional C/PF's exiting the game. Not impressive. 2.1 apg more considering LeBron has played in his own system where he's got the ball now going on an entire career whereas MJ changed his "non winning style" to the triangle(a non individual assist dominated offense) in order to win at 27 years old. Again. Not impressive. LeBron has a slight edge in FG% which is completely unimpressive when you look deeper at realize MJ shoots as good with nost of his career shots coming from mid range to deep mid range. Bulls MJ only career is .1% better fg% than LeBron. 3pt% isn't much of a lead considering LeBrons taken over 4 a game for his career and MJ over 1.5 per game. MJ shot 39% when he shot more than 1.9 3's a game even if 2 of those seasons were shortened line, MJ always had just underneath the 3 line skills at nearly 50% lol..so how is it unbeleivable that an intelligent and skilled scorer can't take a step back and hit 37+% for his career with more attempts.

    So yeah. Not buying these same guys always saying LeBron does more for his teams, especially since LeBron will only allow the offense to be his offense going now on 35 years old. That style of play only wins when you can overwhelm with star talent teammates. Give MJ an already champion DWade, and Bosh or Kyrie and Love or AD and loaded team and he can win with his selfish 35 on 52%/6.5/6/3/1 in the 3 reg. seasons he couldn't get past the 1 game away from 3peating Pistons with minimal help.
     
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  8. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Advanced reg/po and playoffs raw per's don't favor LeBron either. Only totals. All Mj does is score. How insulting when not even starting the conversation with defense and effort.
     
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  9. choujie

    choujie Member

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    35 year old MJ did things Lebron can only dream of.
     
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  10. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    I agree with the comments about LeBron having better statistics and assists because LeBron has system built around him versus mj who completely changed his game with Phil jackson.

    Only thing I disagree with is your comment that LeBron has better rebounds than Jordan because there are no more centers.

    Don't forget why LeBron left the east. LeBron left the east because giannis, embiid, and poezingis (Knicks at the time) are a force that LeBron would have to matchup against four times each.

    Don't forget Tristan Thompson had a better rebound average when Cavs won in 2016!
     
    #330 smoothie_king, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
  11. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Lebron left the east after feasting on it's weakness for what? 13? 14 years? Even if your point was truly valid, you can't compare it to C/PF dominated, half court dominated league vs todays game. I'd bet easy money that MJ's rebounds were worth more than LeBron's considering the sheer amount of perimeter uncontested rebound totals these days.
    Tristan Thompson. Interesting guy to mention. Statistically as close as it gets to Horace Grant. But..one played with LeBron so one's a complete and total bum. Or so they say.
     
  12. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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    A few rule changes from 1994-1995 season that probably played to the advantage of the Rockets and Bulls...
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-season/5b275ea5-540f-4028-858d-1ac9ceeb2f3d/
    The 1994-1995 rule changes:
    THREE-POINT LINE: The three-point line has been shortened from its previous distance of 22 feet in the corners extending to 23 feet 9 inches at the top of the key, to a uniform distance of 22 feet all around the basket. Also, players fouled while in the act of shooting a three-point attempt shall get three free throws instead of two.

    HAND-CHECKING: Referees have been told to vigorously enforce the hand-checking rule this season. Hand-checking -- in which a defender impedes the dribbler's progress by placing his hand on the offensive player's hip -- will be eliminated from the end line in the backcourt to the opposite foul line. While drastically increasing the number of fouls called early in the season, enforcing the rule should provide offensive players with greater freedom of movement and subsequently, more scoring.

    CLEAR-PATH: If a defender grabs an offensive player in the backcourt when he has a clear path to the basket on a breakaway, two foul shots will be awarded. Previously, the rule only applied to fouls made after a player had crossed midcourt.

    OTHER RULES: -- Technical fouls have been increased to $500 each; previously, fines were $100 for the first technical foul and $150 for a second. -- Any player escalating a fight by leaving the bench will be automatically suspended for a minimum of one game and fined a maximum of $20,000, in addition to losing 1/82nd of his salary for each game he is suspended. -- Any player who commits two flagrant fouls in one game will be ejected. -- The second or more of back-to-back timeouts when the ball is not inbounded will be limited to 45 seconds.
     
  13. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

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  14. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    It wasn't that easy for Cleveland since LeBron handpicked the best players for Miami.

    Not much has changed. LeBron saw how difficult it was just to beat the Celtics in 2018 after being down by 3 games to 1. Embiid and poezingis
    was too much of a threat and LeBron left for LA not to mention the Celtics with Tatum.

    I say not much has changed because embiid and giannis work the paint in the half game. The three point threat for the bucks is mostly from the bench because bledsoe and Middleton work half court sets. Simmons and 76ers don't take a boat load of three's after jj Reddick left Philly. Tatum doesn't necessarily shoot a bunch of three's to carry Boston from the three point line.
     
  15. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Yes, but he won't be boasting many times.

    One of the things about him is his humility and feel for the game.

    And he understands better than most of us that he is lucky to have played for the best coaches and teams of those eras.

    Rudy T, Phil and Pop.

    And have a role that didn't wear you down and you can play comfortable minutes in order to make great shots.
     
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  16. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Incredible. It's almost like he had more pep in his step than the 97 run, though you could tell he was slowed down in the playoff highlights. Makes you wonder about 99. Lockout, extra rest for MJ and Rodman due to age and Scottie gets to heal all his lingering injuries. 1 year deals for everyone. Kerr obviously stays and doesn't get traded to win more rings with clutch shots in SA. Kukoc was in his prime. Harper was still there. Brent Barry added for shooting and athleticism. Randy Brown still there for serviceable minutes. Dickey Simpkins and Mark Bryant give C/PF depth but both 6'9 with the 6'7 Rodman, the Bulls would have needed a true 7 footer or 2 vs SA in the Finals. I don't see any of the East teams that year pushing the Bulls to 7 except maybe the Heat which NY shocked in the 1st round. Bulls were 2-0 in 98 against the Sprus. I think Bulls would win in 99 in 6(no Kerr on the Spurs too). Jazz were tied for best record in the league and as old and tired as the Bulls so i really do believe Bulls would have won 99. MJ with another MVP(Malone won with lower numbers than usual as the best player on the best team).
     
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  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The 2nd retirement made even less sense but okay.

    How long do we have to wait for Episode 9 and 10.....can't wait.
     
  18. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Metrics gone wrong.

    1) Jordan didn't play in 1.5 of those seasons.

    2) They still lost in the 95 playoffs. What does it matter that they lost a series without losing 3 in a row? They lost 4 games and were sent packing.
     
  19. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    What category does Jordan lead in that he shouldn't? This includes titles, as every time he won he had the best team.
     
  20. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    #340 J.R., May 17, 2020
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    D-rock, JumpMan and KingCheetah like this.

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