Thanks for the link and a great find! From the stats, Knicks, as a team, actually had a better efficiency (offense+defense) when Lin was without Melo and/or Stat. I have no idea why Roxxy said Lin and Melo played well together. The fact is they didn't. Lin was more prolific without either or both Melo and Stat.
They did play well together. When you watched the games you could see it. Don't get me wrong they had there initial struggles off the bat trying to mesh with one another but after about 6 games they were much improved. Lin and Melo were connecting for full court passes, the coach would run plays involving the two of them that were successful, both of them helped catalyze the offense as opposed to it just being Lin (Lin can play off the ball). Melo would draw the double team and kick it out to Lin for a catch and shoot or Lin would get the ball to Melo in motion to ensure a quick release. Most teams know that Melo is capable of beating them single handedly so that prevented teams from double teaming Lin (who can also score the ball). Yes he was more prolific when melo and Stat were out but you have to realize that what he did over that 7 game period was not sustainable over the long haul and Lin was getting away with stuff that he typically wouldn't have been able to get away with as games progressed. I hope this makes sense.
I severely underrate Kidd by not putting him in Top 5 PGs? He's obv HOF but Top 5 is pushing it. AI/Maravich may have been high-scoring guards but they were still PGs.
This is a case of just looking at raw stats instead of watching games. When Lin and Melo started to mesh under Woodson the Knicks were a lot better. They demolished the Pacers in back to back games. They beat the Pacers so easily that none of the starters had to play more than 30 minutes.
Maravich is massively overrated. AI is considerd to be more of an SG than PG. Kidd is definitely better than Maravich. More impactful, better two way player, ran a much better offense, far more accolades led a garbage team to the finals, etc. Nash Kidd Chris Paul are definitely already more accomplished and better than Pistol Pete who scored a lot but on poor inefficiency and in a weaker era with a lot more scoring. I also consider Rose and Tony Parker better.
Wasnt that the time when Melo just 'magically' remembered how to play defense? Yeah, I watched more than 2 back to back Pacer/Knicks games.
Sincere question. You watched the games and you didn't see Lin and Carmelo playing better together particularly under the new coach?
I also want to add that many games they won down the stretch were down right ugly. If not for the opposing teams falling apart at the end, Knicks would never make the playoffs. Ex: Bulls at msg, Bucks at Mil.
But you didn't answer my question though. I am being genuinely sincere you don't think that they played better together? Or i guess what you are trying to say is that yes they did but Lin really never wanted to play with Carmelo he just did so because that was what the coach wanted? Even if that is true it still doesn't really change the fact that they played well together. Am I misunderstanding you and do you see what I am trying to get at?
No, you severely underrate him by putting Maravich and AI and DJ in front of him. I would say he is around 5-7 range.
I think you have a valid point. Lin did improve his games by distributing the ball more to Melo and Stat, and turned it over less. It showed that Lin was still developing his game. Sad thing is, after he was going to leave Knicks, the media just destroyed his image by amplifying his mistakes on the court to make Knicks look good. especially for a barely sophomore. And ironically, some people bit on that and keep bashing on a young player like he's a 5 year veteran. Gotta love that hate.
I did answer you but just didnt elaborate. When MDA was the coach, Lin was the pivotal in his offense. When a player was out of position, he not only disrupted the flow of offense but caused confusion for other players. Lin didn;t pass the ball to Melo. If you watched the Knicks games during that losing streak. Melo didn't rebound* and didn't play defense. In another word, he quit. Even some of diehard Knicks fans will not refute this. To say they played well during those games is really laughable. When Woodson took over, everything ran through Melo. It was Lin's job to set up Melo for the play. If you say Lin played well with Melo, then Lin did a helluva job! He did what he was told by his coach, MDA or Woodson. *Melo in Feb averaged 2.8 DRB in 31.5 Min/game, lowest month in his career.
You are right about the stuff under Dantoni but I was talking about under Woodson. I thought I said that before but maybe I didn't or I wasn't clear enough my apologies. Not on every possession. Lin also set up plays for Amare and Tyson as well. Yes the offense ran more through Carmelo under Woodson than it did under Dantoni but it wasn't every single possession. Both Lin and Carmelo shared the burden of generating the offense. Hopefully what I am saying makes sense.
His hand knocked the ball out of Lin's hands first, then followed through to Lin's dome. Still think it was a lame, desperation move, he was so clearly beat, no way he was going to get the ball clean at that point.
Got it! I guess we werent completely in sync. The burden is completely on Melo next season; it's his team, his coach, his SELECTED teammates, and his house. With pressure from Nets in Brooklyn, if he can't deliver, many will be impatient enough to switch to Nets.
It'll be interesting to see what the Knicks offense looks like next season. I could be wrong, but when Woodson took over, it seemed like he was running a hybrid of his ISO system and Dantoni's system. While Lin was healthy, that is, when he went down, it looked an awful lot like his Hawks/Johnson ISO system, only with Melo.
Yes, there is a clear psychological underpinning for that, call it cognitive dissonance, call it racism or just confusion, Lin was a category buster for sure. On top of that, lots of people identify with apparently high status figures and institutions such as Carmelo and the Knicks, and then this all becomes a ridiculous internet dick measuring contest.
Well that's exactly what will happen and of course Carmelo will look for a scapegoat when he struggles. Are you listening Woody?
