As much as I hate Kobe (and I do hate him with a passion), and I hate agreeing with kidrock even more, he is right. Give Kobe a defensive team with the likes of Dikembe and such and he could easily lead that team to the finals.
The question is how would Kobe handle the constant double and triple teams, along with the physical beating that the opposition gives Iverson night in and night out. You also have to take into account the lack of ability of the other Sixers to make shots. And the West isn't nearly as strong as the East in terms of the shooting guard position. How would Kobe handle facing McGrady, Carter, Pierce, Stackhouse, etc. quite a bit more frequently? There's many different aspects you have to consider when making such a statement. As I said before, I'd take Kobe over Iverson in a heartbeat. But I'm not so sure that this is a situation that Kobe would thrive in.
AI is bogging down 76er's offence, Kobe is making his teammates better. The 76ers can't get going without AI's offence, they lack creators. The problem is, AI is vastly overrated as a scorer in terms of efficiency. Taking 30 shots a game and hitting only 40 percent is ball hogging. Kobe takes about 20 shots a game and scores only 5 points less due to a 7% FG% difference. Both player's assists are the same at 5.5 per game so their creating for teammates is a wash. In essence, AI take 10 more shots than Kobe per game and scores only 5 more points. AI doesn't have Kobe's defense either. If Kobe gets to touch the ball everytime like AI does, his assists will be higher instead of equal. Kobe has no problem handling double teaming while Shaq was out. If Kobe is on the 76ers they will make the finals every year. Kobe is the winner.
Panda, read my post above. It's a perfect response. To add to the previous points: Don't you think Kobe's FG % will suffer significantly when faced with the constant double and triple teams along with the physical beatings that the opposition will give him with him as the only offensive threat on the Sixers? And Kobe's assist total will decrease as a member of the Sixers. Look at who Iverson had around him: Mutombo, Eric Snow, Matt Harpring, and Derrick Coleman. Just how can Kobe raise his assist totals when passing out of the attention he receives to his offensively challenged teammates (with the possible exception of Coleman)? Kobe has a much better cast of shooters on the Lakers, along with Shaq, who can finish around the basket a whole lot better than Mutombo can. Once Kobe gets frustrated, he's going to want to force up a lot of bad shots, which will further dwindle his FG%. Kobe's the better player, no doubt about that, but this is not a situation in which I believe that Kobe will thrive in.
I agree with some of your assessment, but Kobe's height advantage makes him easier to deal with double and triple teams. Also, he can always shoot a higher fadeway jumper which AI simply can't do. As to his dropping in FG% with more shots, that's generally the case but the key here is that Kobe is more physically endowed to fight double teams and score. His FG% may drop but I don't think will be like 40%. Plus the fact that AI takes too many ill advised shots and Kobe doesn't, I think Kobe will do better scoringwise than AI on the 76ers, even facing the likes of Carter and Stackhouse, who are not known for their defensive prowess but scoring potency. On the other side, Kobe might be better off as there's no Doug Christie's and Bruce Bowen's in the east. Eric Snow(44% FG%), Aaron McKey(45%), Matt Harpring(46%) and Derrick Colemen(45%) are all solid shooters. The newly acquired Todd MacCulloch can finish pretty good too. The Lakers' shooters can be clutch, but their shooting touch doesn't wow me. Kobe played 5 minutes less per game than AI last year with a lot less touches, but registered the same assist numbers. There's no indication that he'd do worse in AI's shoes in this aspect. On the physical beating Kobe seems to be more durable with his body build than the bag of bones of Iverson. AI is taking harsh punishment due to his lack of mass. Kobe played 80 games last years in contrast to AI's 60 games, and it's not like Kobe isn't taking beating in the west. Moreover, with a lot less quality big men in the east, Kobe will thrive in attacking the basket than in the west. AI can't attack the basket as ferociously as Kobe due to his size. That's a big plus for Kobe there. I do like AI's fire a lot, but sadly his maturity level is not up there with Kobe's gamewise. Kobe's actually less selfish than AI is. He developed a plan in which he can get his numbers and still involves his teammates. He always try to create in the first half then try to score in the seconf half. The same can't be said about AI who jacks up the kind of shots that makes Mobley ashamed as the king of heave. AI is such a warrior but he's not up there with Kobe Bryant. Since we agree on Kobe being better than AI, I think that's good enough under this topic.
I like your analysis Panda, but several points stick out that I'm going to have to comment on. Put Kobe in Iverson's position, and he WILL force up more ill-advised shots. It's just the nature of the position Iverson is in. His teammates are offensively challenged and rely on him immensely. Add to that, the double and triple teams, and his FG% will dwindle to the low 40's. Kobe is a career 45.8% FG shooter, so it's pretty reasonable to expect that to drop to around 42%. I wouldn't expect Kobe's to dip to the sub-40's range that Iverson's in simply because, Kobe will still more than likely have a better shot selection (although that will suffer) and Kobe has the height advantage. Regarding the assist totals. Kobe is terrific at driving, drawing the defense, and dishing off to Shaq. Shaq is the best in the league at finishing around the basket. Put Mutombo there and he doesn't convert at the same percentage. Also, Rick Fox, Lindsey Hunter, Derek Fisher, etc. are all pretty much just spot up shooters, which is a perfect complement to Shaq and Kobe. Eric Snow, Matt Harpring, etc. aren't what you call good stationary shooters. Add to that the additional burden of scoring Kobe will have to shoulder, and I see his assist totals falling. It's not facing Stackhouse, Carter, Pierce, T-mac, etc. more frequently as an offensive player that will be a challenge for Kobe. It's actually being worked on defense that will challenge Kobe. I mean if Kobe wants to put up numbers, more than likely, Kobe's going to put up numbers. It's the fact that he's going to have to guard these guys night in and night out. How will Kobe respond to guarding these terrific offensive players? Will it tire him out? Will it force Kobe to want to respond and therefore, jack up some ill-advised shots? The quality of the East's shooting guards is much higher than the West's. With the exception of Michael Finley and Cuttino Mobley, the West just does not have any real offensive threats at the shooting guard position. In the East, Kobe would have to deal with chasing Reggie and Allan Houston through screens and guarding Pierce, Stackhouse, Carter, McGrady, Ray Allen, Jason Terry, among others one-on-one. That's not an easy task, especially when on the other end, you don't have the luxury anymore of dumping it into the most dominant player on the planet. Instead, the team's depending on you, and only you, to create. It's just not an easy situation to thrive in.
I'd like to add one more point here, Kobe will make the 76er a lot better with his defense. He's used to play defense night in and night out, even he soft pedal himself on the defensive end to save some energy against the elite sgs you listed, he's still better than AI in that category. Also, comparatively he'll use less energy on the offensive end against worse defenders in the east so he can put more energy on playing defence. I don't see a big problem on double or triple teaming there as Kobe just need to pass the ball to the open teammates. That's what drawing defence is for. More double teaming will also lead to better assists numbers for Kobe than on the Lakers, while he still has the option of beating double teams by himself. Double teaming is actually good for Kobe's game. The more of it the easier it's for Kobe to create. As to shot selection and FG%, I beg to differ that all the bad shots AI took is a result of circumstances. It's partly so but AI has a tendency to take bad shots. Sometimes he's a black hole and quite stubborn on his shot selection, like when he couldn't hit a 3 he just kept pouring it in with a hand in his face instead of getting some high percentage shots, or passing the ball to other players such as Harpring and Coleman who can get their own shots off. This is an aspect that AI needs to work on and Kobe doesn't. So the same shot selection problem shouldn't be expected on Kobe, and even if so, it's to a much lesser degree as Kobe's ability to beat double teams are better than Iversons. On the assists total, since there's both pro factors, such as more PT and touches, and con factors, such as lesser capable teammates. I think it's hard to tell clearly about Kobe's assists right now. Overrall offensively Kobe can do better in the east than the west since defense in the east is weaker. While defensively he'll be challenged, one thing is for sure that Kobe can maintain his current offense and defense input and still do fine against the eastern elite sgs. I mean even if Kobe put up on the 76ers the same defensive effort on the Lakers he's still a good defender, and he's just 23 years old with a lot of stamina. I agree with you that it's not an easier situation to thrive in, there's much more burden on Kobe than before, but I just don't see that Kobe will do worse in a weaker Eastern conference. Of course, if you mean that Kobe's team will do worse than the Lakers then that's no question for me.
Kobe's stats playing without Shaq due to injury or suspension last season: vs. Warriors KOBE BRYANT G 41 17-28 3-7 2-2 0 2 2 5 3 1 3 0 39 vs. Vancouver KOBE BRYANT G 34 21-34 3-6 11-12 3 2 5 4 1 1 0 0 56 (skipped the fourth, on his way to 70) vs. Chicago KOBE BRYANT G 41 14-26 1-2 9-10 3 5 8 1 2 1 8 2 38 Couple of points: 1) fatigue on defense against elite Eastern SG's is a bit overstated. Kobe doesn't play 100% defense the entire game (no player does really, maybe B. Wallace). He paces himself on offense and defense throughout the game. First team defense isn't out of reach in the East. 2) Kobe doesn't just penetrate and kick to outside shooters. He'd get plenty of dunks for Mutombo (he's in NJ now I know) and the other big men. (See the Finals for the past 3 seasons). 3) It's a symbiotic relationship. Shaq benefits from Kobe as well (Kobe is turning into a better shooter each year 15-20 ft. out w/ the exception of the 3 pointer). I'd wish they play more of a 2 man game like Utah, but the triangle doesn't emphasize that. 4) Kobe's hypo East team would probably loose to Shaq's West in the Finals, but Kobe could get them that far at least. Easily.
I love the myth that Kobe doesn't get double teamed. Kobe is among the best SGs in the NBA at beating double teams with his dribbling/passing/shooting. Teams don't double Kobe because he makes them pay every time. He's especially good at setting Shaq up with easy dunks off of penetration, where he splits the defenders and practically hands the ball to Shaq for a dunk. Kobe also gets great seperation on his fadeaway jumper, that having 2 defenders doesn't really help it all. Remember how useless it would be to double Olajuwon, if he's shooting the Dream Shake? Some of you people who say the bad things about Kobe's game, makes me wonder if you bothered to see him play. It's like you use a stereotype for normal SGs and immediately apply it to Kobe, failing to realize that he's one of the top 3 players in the game today.
Exaggeration. I blatantly stated that Kobe's the better player. I wouldn't consider Kobe a top 3 player, but definitely top 5. Your love for Kobe overrates him (it's exactly like how Rocket fans feel about their players)...I know tons of people who thought Penny Hardaway was the next Jordan. You know what happened there. Now I'm not saying Kobe would turn out the same way, but there is a ton of difference from having Shaq on your team and not having Shaq on your team, even though your blind love for Kobe blinds you from realizing this. I guarantee you constant double and triple teams would frustrate Kobe. Especially if they do it off the ball as they do to Iverson sometimes. Sure, Kobe would split is occasionally, but he's not playing in high school, where he can beat double teams every single time. What if they double right when he gets the ball outside of the 3 point line. What, now Kobe can shoot the terrific fadeaway that he has from 25 feet out? Now Kobe's a terrific player; more than likely, he's going to be one of the all-time greats. But in no way is he god, where constant double and triple teams aren't going to frustrate him. Dream was frustrated plenty by double and triple teams until he learned how to pass out of them. Even then, they sometimes bothered him, especially against the Sonics. Kobe's a tremendous talent that comes along every 5-10 or so years, and I'm sure he'd do alright in Iverson's position. But you overrate him if you think he's going to have an easy time or thrive in the situation Iverson's in with the Sixers.
BTW, 3 games out of an 82-game season is not nearly enough to gauge the effect of being the main focus of a team. Even so, the three games you have listed are Vancouver, Chicago, and Golden State (LOL!). I'd be surprised if Kobe didn't light up (3 rookies) Shane Battier, Jason Richardson, Trenton Hassell, and their respective shoddy teams. Those 3 teams were probably the 3 worst teams in the league. Penny Hardaway had some terrific games without Shaq; one game here and there just isn't enough to gauge how Kobe would do. Kobe's not going to argue though; he has 3 rings from being Shaq's sidekick. If you insist on using those stats, I'd be more interested in the win-loss record of the Lakers without Shaq anyway.
