Islamists target Christians, killing university students

I have to admit my ignorance and have to say that I wouldn't even know what a Devgru operator is (without googling).

To answer your question: I think it's two questions in one. I'll answer the second one first (I added numbers in your quote).

No, I don't think any personnel on the ground is confused who the bad guys are. Well, actually, I think we are all confused who the bad guys are. In Syria and Iraq, it seems like "we" are bombing alongside forces supported by Iran, whereas in Yemen, "we" are bombing forces supported by Iran. "We" also helped topple governments (like Saddam and Gaddhafi), only to find out that the guys coming after them were even more "bad guys" than the previous ones. But all of that is not caused by Obama calling the terror Islamist or not Islamist.

Now here is my answer to question 1:

I think it does affect the fight against Islamist extremism (which is rearing its ugly head in many countries all over the world). By refusing to acknowledge the motive for terror, you have already failed to analyze the root causes. If you don't analyze the root causes and motive of terror, how can you then fight it effectively? All you are left with is fighting symptoms...which means bombing. But once you realize that the real root cause is the underlying ideology (with contributing factors such as socio-economic and tribal issues and whatever, but the common theme is political Islam), then you can try and see how the ideology spreads (e.g. from Saudi Arabia) and whom you would really have to address to prevent further spreading of the poisonous ideology.

But if you just keep lying and keep saying things like:

...then you are just closing your eyes to the truth, are obfuscating the real root cause of the terror, are ignoring the fact that there clearly is an ideological motivation for ISIS' actions, that there is a common theme between ISIS, Al-Shabaab, Boko Haram, Taliban, etc. etc.

Look, I fully understand the rationale of not wanting to ostracize peaceful Muslims in the West. Merkel and Hollande use the same statements as Obama. I just think it's wrong. It's PC to the extreme. Of course, ISIS is Islamic. So is Boko Haram. So is Al-Shabaab.

Why would it isolate Muslims in the USA to recognize that ISIS is Islamic? If anything, it would challenge them to work out how their Islam differs from ISIS' Islam. But by saying "oh they are not Islamic, for sure", all you do is obfuscate the issue that yes, they are Islamic, and yes, there are commonalities between their ideology and the ideology that is taught in mosques in the USA (us vs. them, life of a Muslim is worth more than the life of a non-Muslim, Mohammed is regarded as infallible, Jews are regarded as the enemy, etc. etc. etc.). Fortunately, there are also differences. But by putting out a factually incorrect blanket statement that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam, Obama is actually stifling a necessary discussion.

And you know who agrees with me on this?

The "ultra-conservative" publication Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/obama-isis-not-islamic_b_5843830.html

 

Agreed.

Once again, agreed.

No, I am suggesting that Islam needs to somehow find a way to reform itself. I don't actually know how the rest of the world can help that development. Openly promoting secularism in the Middle East can be a dangerous proposition for those who do it. But bombing people probably produces more fanatism in response. Sometimes it still needs to be done (like to help the Kurds or Yazidis, to fight genocide), but it certainly won't reform Islam.

fchowd0311 has suggested that Islam cannot be reformed. He might be right. But then, of course, I am even more at a loss with regard to what can be done.

 

so your suggestion is to gradually end the devil's pact with Saudi Arabia, empower fracking, normalize relations with Iran, and move away from a fossil fuel economy?

or should the United States preach love?

 

yes

I am not knowledgable enough about the subject, but in the long run, only renewable energy works, logically.

I don't know that they (the government, not the people) are really any better than Saudi-Arabia, so, no. But I see more potential for a secular society in Iran.

Yes.

That as well, of course.

 

By "preach love" do you mean support civil society organizations to moderate violence in countries with political Islamic leanings, expanding and balancing the foreign aid budget to more non-military use and a more distributed approach, and supporting the nascent tech industry in the Middle East (especially in Palestine?) Do you mean accelerating the Israeli-Palestinian peace process? Do you mean working with NFPs like Oxfam to ensure that there are no socio-economic reasons for people to want to kill each other? Or is it something else you're thinking of beyond those options?

And what is your bridge in between dropping relations with Saudi Arabia and the need to power the modern economy?

(I'm actually just curious lol)

 

The suggestions sound decent, speaking in general terms. I don't know Oxfam well enough. It also depends on what "accelerating the Israeli-Palestinian peace process" means, of course. The USA have been a broker in this process for a long time. It can't mean "taking sides against Israel because the US President doesn't like the head of the Israeli government". I am sure there are more things that can be done.

I am not an expert on energy, but I would think there should be ways.

 

There's the political aspect of making sure both sides are trying to negotiate a deal in good faith.

But there's always more that can be done.

http://www.up.co/communities/palestine/ramallah-palestine-palestine/startup-weekend/4831



http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/early-investors-see-promise-in-palestinian-start-ups/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...ente-is-drawing-israelis-palestinians-closer/

 

Yes, I read about that. I'm pretty sure that Israel's success in the high-tech industry has to do with Palestinians trying to emulate that, and that's a good thing (as long as any money made through this doesn't end up in the hands of those who only want to use it to fire more rockets and build terror tunnels).

 

Just found out my coworker's 22 year old sister was one of the victims.



**** these assholes.

 

That's horrible. Sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately also goes to show that Islamist terror is so much closer than many people think.