Mursi draws fire with new Egypt decree expanding his powers Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi has ordered a retrial of officials involved in protester killings during the 2011 revolution, in a highly anticipated announcement issuing constitutional amendments on Thursday night. Among the presidential decrees made in the announcement by his spokesman, Mursi sacked the current state prosecutor Abdel Maguid Mahmoud and appointed a replacement. Mahmoud was at the center of controversy in recent months after he refused to quit after being dismissed by Mursi. Mursi tried to remove the veteran prosecutor after the acquittals of Hosni Mubarak-era officials on trial for a deadly attack on protesters during the 2011 uprising that led to the long-time strongman standing down. On Thursday night, crowds in Tahrir Square following the announcement celebrated Mursi's constitutional amendments, chanting: "The people want Abdel Maguid to be tried." But as hundreds turned out on in support of the new declaration granting him sweeping powers, a rival protest criticised "the making of new dictator." "The people want the cleansing of the judiciary," chanted hundreds of Islamist protesters, who had gathered outside the High Court three hours before Morsi had even made his announcement. The new declaration allows the president to "issue any decision or measure to protect the revolution," according to the text. The president also announced the appointment of Talaat Ibrahim Abdullah as the new state prosecutor. "The public prosecutor general will occupy his post for a period of four years," said Yasser Ali, a presidential spokesman. Abdallah announced his intention to retry Mubarak, his Interior Minister Habib al-Adly and other officials of the ousted regime on charges of killing protesters, local media reported. The move to order a retrial of Mubarak-era officials will likely be popular among those who feel that revolutionary justice has yet to be served. Mubarak, 84, was sentenced to life in prison in June for failing to prevent killings that occurred during the uprising that led to his February 11, 2011 downfall. He has been held in a prison hospital since his sentence was handed down. Yet critics have faulted the process by which he and other officials were put on trial. One of the problems, they say, was that the Mubarak-era prosecutor general had not been replaced. Mursi’s Decrees A rundown of the main presidential decrees made in the announcement. 1. President announces that all decisions, laws and declarations passed by the president since taking office cannot be appealed or revoked by any authority, including the judicary. 2. President announces that Egypt's constitution-drafting body and the Shura Council (uppper house of parliament) cannot be dissolved by any authority, including the judicary. In addition, the timeframe for drafting the constitution has been extended by two months, to eight months in total. The Constituent Assembly was due to hand in the final draft of Egypt's national charter by the 5 December. 3. President announces the re-trial all those charged with killing or injuring protesters involved in revolutionary demonstrations since January 25 Revolution. In addition, all Mubarak-era officials responsible for terrorizing protesters will be retried. 4. President announces appointment of Talaat Ibrahim as prosecutor-general in place of Abdel-Meguid Mahmoud. http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/22/251186.html ----------------- Egypt Judges Club says Mursi’s power decree an assault on judiciary An influential group of Egyptian judges said on Thursday a decree issued by Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi was assault on the country’s law and the independence of the judiciary. Presented as a move to “protect the revolution,” Mursi ordered the retrials for Mubarak-era officials responsible for violence during the uprising against his rule, the decree shielded from legal challenge an Islamist-dominated assembly writing Egypt's new constitution. The decree gave the same protection to the upper house of parliament, dominated by Islamists allied to Mursi, and assigned the president new powers that allowed him to sack the Mubarak-era prosecutor general and appoint a new one. It stated that all decisions taken by Mursi until the election of a new parliament were exempt from legal challenge. Egypt Judges Club Chairman Counselor Ahmad al-Zind told reporters that Mursi’s decree was “tragic,” adding that it “pained the nation.” “This is an assault on the independence of the judiciary … The Egyptian people should decide their future,” Zind said. The decree appeared to remove any uncertainty still hanging over the fate of the assembly writing the constitution. The body has faced a raft of legal challenges from plaintiffs who dispute its legality. Critics say its popular legitimacy had been further called into doubt by withdrawals of many of its non-Islamist members who had complained their voices were not being heard. The constitution is a crucial element in Egypt's transition to democracy. New parliamentary elections will not be held until the document is completed and passed by a popular referendum. The decree also gave the body an additional two months to complete its work, meaning the drafting process could stretch until February, pushing back new elections. "These decisions will feed discord in Egyptian politics and will be far from creating a favorable climate for restoration of economic growth," Mustapha Kamal Al-Sayyid, a professor of political science at Cairo University, told Reuters news agency. http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/23/251266.html ------------ Mursi accused of becoming 'new pharaoh' The Egyptian President, Mohamed Mursi, has assumed sweeping powers, prompting the prominent opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradei to accuse him of usurping authority and becoming a "new pharaoh". "The president can issue any decision or measure to protect the revolution," according to a decree read out on television by the presidential spokesman Yasser Ali on Thursday. "The constitutional declarations, decisions and laws issued by the president are final and not subject to appeal." Mr Mursi also sacked the prosecutor-general, Abdel Meguid Mahmud, whom he failed to oust last month, appointing Talaat Ibrahim Abdallah to replace him. Advertisement That set him on another collision course with the country's judiciary after he promised last month to bring back to court officials of the former regime acquitted of organising an attack on protesters during last year's uprising against the ousted leader Hosni Mubarak. Mr Mursi’s decisions were announced on the eve of a planned mass protest after four days of violent demonstrations in Cairo. The demonstrators include youth groups who say Mr Mursi and his government have not fulfilled the aims of the protesters who ousted Hosni Mubarak, or brought to justice those responsible for killing protesters. ‘‘Today is the start for truly avenging the blood of the martyrs with which we have been entrusted,’’ Mr Mursi said on his official Twitter account. Only a day earlier Mr Mursi was hailed by the US President, Barack Obama, and other leaders for his role in realizing a truce between Hamas and Israel. As well as dealing with the Gaza conflict and a renewed push to raise Egypt’s profile in the region, he is contending with unrest at home and an economy battered by months of strikes and protests. In his pronouncements on Thursday the President ordered "new investigations and retrials" in the cases dealing with the deaths of protesters, a decision that could affect senior military officials. He said no judicial body could dissolve the upper house of parliament or the Islamist-dominated constituent assembly that is writing a new constitution and which has been criticised by the secular-minded opposition for failing to represent all segments of society. He has also given the body – which was due to issue a draft constitution in December – two extra months to come up with a charter, which will then be put to a referendum. The declaration is aimed at "cleansing state institutions" and "destroying the infrastructure of the old regime". Mr ElBaradei, the Nobel laureate and former UN atomic energy agency chief, said the declaration effectively put the President above judicial oversight. "Mursi today usurped all state powers and appointed himself Egypt's new pharaoh. A major blow to the revolution that could have dire consequences," Mr ElBaradei wrote on Twitter. Analysts and activists such as Gamal Eid, a human rights lawyer, predicted the decrees could further stoke unrest. ‘‘Mursi has committed a fatal mistake by decreeing his decisions cannot be appealed,’’ Mr Eid said. ‘‘The move will trigger more anti-government protests and will increase public frustration. The people don’t need another dictator.’’ Even before the announcement was read out, Islamists had gathered outside the High Court in central Cairo demanding the "cleansing of the judiciary". Mr Mursi, who belongs to the powerful Muslim Brotherhood, is the first elected president after the popular uprising that toppled Mr Mubarak last year. ‘‘These are revolutionary decisions that came in response to peoples’ demands and will definitely gain popular support,’’ Mahmoud Ghozlan, a spokesman for the Brotherhood, said. ‘‘People have been calling for eliminating corruption and purging the judiciary since Mursi’s appointment. The decisions will bring stability and that’s what people want.’’ http://www.smh.com.au/world/mursi-accused-of-becoming-new-pharaoh-20121123-29uvs.html ---------------- "Arab spring" in action - total disregard for the concept of separation of powers, absolute dictatorship, paving the way for an Islamist "constitution" that cannot be legally challenged. Let's not forget that the Muslim Brotherhood was also a breeding ground for terrorists.
What does "Islamist Morsi" have to do with this thread? I don't like him but from the looks of your article this statement pretty much sums it up and is actually a good thing... While sacking prosecutors is controversial, it says they acquitted those involved in the murder of protestors. If they were tried under very pro Mubarak prosecutors it might not have been a fair trial and a retrial sounds in line with justice. I know you don't like islam but your thread title sounds like its meant to be inflammatory. I would avoid something like it in the future. Islamist- Ahmedinajad isn't too great but more fitting than in this case.
True Beaner, you have obviously never heard of the concept of Double Jeopardy, to begin with. You might also want to pay attention to what nobel prize winner El Baradei said. It's as if Obama were to overrule Supreme Court rulings, firing attorney generals and judges to make sure that a small group he appointed (in this case, the Islamist dominated constituent assembly) cannot even be legally challenged at all. If you do not understand that this is outrageous, I cannot help you. In fact - Godwin's law alert - what Mursi is doing is right out of Hitler's playbook. Watch the media being brought into line next.
Abraham Africanus the First! http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303567704577518332037249906.html The unelected judiciary is trying to squash the elected legislative, the executive is trying to squash the unelected judiciary. I see it as a healthy balance of powers issue. Morsi may have overstepped his bounds, but it's wonderful to see an actual free debate about judiciary vs executive being played out in Egypt. I laughed at the comparisons to Mubarak---he basically hand-picked the judiciary, and it's still obstructing progress (duh). American history is rife with examples of the executive trying to get ahead of the pesky judiciary. The aforementioned Africanus, for example, or FDR stuffing the Supreme Court with his nominees comes to mind easily. Even in the most mature democracy of our age, contentious issues such as Bush v. Gore show that this mixing of powers has still not been fully resolved. I expect to see much more progress in the years to come for Egypt as issues like this have become a bone of contention.
No, I have and I know we have that here in the united states. There are some countries and I think egypt is one that allow it, so it maybe ok within the confines of their law. As far as firings go don't you remember this a couple of years back? Its wrong, buts its not as uncommon as you are claiming it to be. This fueled a lot of controversey: I like you, don't believe these firings are right but by providing the examples you just did linking it solely to those accounts, you are dramatizing this and using it to further your agenda-- that is what I have a problem with. As far as the justice system goes even in the U.S, I don't understand why the president has the authority to appoint the justices.
Double jeopardy is very much a common law concept, Egypt runs a civil law program mixed with a hodgepodge of religious and socialistic principles. It might be a constitutional right in America, but judging by what's happening now, I'm pretty sure it's not even an encoded statute law, or referenced in the Egyptian Civil Code. Again, that's straight from the Mubarak judiciary, the same one that is being "assaulted" right now.
Exactly, that is what I was trying to get at with my earlier post. You can't use the the U.S as a counter example since the laws of the country are different. If he in fact did change it, then it would be wrong.
In spirit of ATW's islam hating, I'm going to pursue my atheist agenda on here since it is so lacking.
The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is basically one of those things people sign and forget about. International law and enforcement mechanisms are very sparse. The proof is in the pudding for Egypt who ratified the treaty in 1982, and hasn't ratified the Rome Statute afterwards for any semblance of an enforcement mechanism. Let's see what has happened... ex: http://www.lepetitjuriste.fr/englis...ored-again-in-north-africa-s-latest-uprisings Compare and contrast to what is happening on the ground--- And a reason for why the EU (and other international organizations like the UN) have these laws is because the EU had to sign an overriding European Convention on Human Rights to bridge the gap on double jeopardy because most jurisdictions are civil law and have inconsistencies from state-to-state on issues like this. An example that should strike close to home--- It is common law jurisdictions that hold the strongest double jeopardy protections, and do not need sparse international law with few enforcement mechanisms to "paper" over this aspect. For example, it is enshrined in the constitutional law of Canada and of course, in the Fifth Amendment for America. Egypt, to my understanding (though I might be wrong) does not have double jeopardy provisions encoded in domestic laws. You can cite them for international law violations. I'm saddened by the fact that international law mechanisms don't work to hold parties to a signed treaty, though hardly surprised. Some of your favorite countries ATW, incidentally, are in flagrant violation of international law. Hmm. Egypt's past really was sordid, now that one comes to think of it. Glad they're progressing to the point where executive vs judiciary has become an issue that's able to be discussed, without the government violating habeas corpus rights and imprisoning protesters without cause. If you wish to discuss this instead of the technicalities of international law, I would be happy to do so.
I thought the timing was interesting. Secretary Clinton there helping to broker a cease fire in Gaza, with Mursi getting a lot of positive press in the process, and this happens "out of the blue." Did we get a heads-up? We have a powerful naval presence in the Med that's continuing to hang around (part of it was in transit, but the orders were changed). Turkey is asking us (NATO) for Patriot anti-missile/aircraft batteries for their southeast border region. We still have a very large presense in the Gulf. There's a lot going on, and I guess I'm wondering if there's more going on than meets the eye.
Agreed. (and LOL once again at intern Northside Storm throwing out an uninformed statement, then frantically googling and writing an essay trying to justify his uninformed statement :grin: )
I don't think Egypt owes a heads-up to America anymore. With that said, I don't really think it's surprising the United States maintains a military presence just in case---that's been American foreign policy for the last hundred years or so.
Thank you for your well-informed rebuttal to the issues at hand. Tis a displeasure of mine that you veer often from subject to personal insults, though I don't take it personally. I wish the best for you, ATW, and may you have a merry time on these forums. (If you're ever back to debating the issues however, let me know where Egypt's domestic laws codify double jeopardy, and how civil law regimes have a stronger notion of double jeopardy than common law nations when---) https://litigation-essentials.lexis...cid=3B15&key=d7e54d705959ca72ff3ef8a09770d59b Most civil law countries refer to double jeopardy as res judicata. and when--- http://www.autrefoisacquit.info/#technicalities
Do some more research, intern - and then post trying to explain the world to people who are actually knowledgable. It is amusing .
What's amusing is when someone owns you in an argument, you have no rebuttal. Instead, you turn into a 10 year old keyboard warrior throwing insults as if it is in anyway a legitimate reply. You just got thoroughly refuted and your best response was to display your idiocy? Are you oblivious to this or is part of that idiocy preventing you from realizing it?
Happy days for Netenyahu and Obama. Nothing as changed for non-Egyptians. For Egyptians, the change is cosmetic - from one group of people who want to impose tremendous power to another. The media is making this out to be a route to hostilities with Western countries or Israel. In reality all of non-Brotherhood Egypt understands that the heads up has been given, the nod received, and these steps towards the Islamicization of Egypt and enshrinement of the Brotherhood are being allowed to take place only because the guarantee has been given that external relations will remain intact except in harshness of media statements. Everyone is protesting Morsi and also the Brotherhood today. https://twitter.com/search?q=#egypt
Not at all. Only in the mind of an intern and people like you. It's actually even more hilarious seeing the effort that the intern expends to convince himself more than anyone that he can act like a smartass. Believe me, I know more than you about this. I don't have the time or intention to waste energy on educating some morons who will then frantically google and copy/paste from Wikipedia to pretend that they are in any way knowledgable about a topic.
