Is the Bagwell Situation getting a little Sketchy?

I missed the part where Ryan did that in Houston. When was that again?

I see your point: Ryan is huge nationwide, a pitching legend revered in all corners of the game, and he's from Houston. You value that more highly than what Bagwell and Biggio have contributed to the Astros franchise. That's cool.

Others of us see that their performance in Houston is greater than Ryan's in Houston. That's not "blind devotion". It's just a different opinion. No one's belittling your stance; there's no reason for you to do so, either.

 

It does, but losing does not. Especially when it's my last game and I had given a gutless effort after one of my teammates was lost for the series. I definitely don't have a big ****ing grin on my face after that. That's sick.

 

I've never understood the fascination with Nolan Ryan. Yes, he struck out a lot of people. And he played a really, really long time and accumulated huge numbers in his stats (wins, for example). But his career record was just a bit over 0.500, and he won at least 15 games just 8 times ... in 26 seasons. And in 5 of those 8 seasons, he was part of a 4 man rotation, so he got 37-40 starts. His average record over his career? 12.4 wins and 11.2 losses. The last 15 years of his career, he never won more than 20 games (something he only did twice anyway). And he was on some playoff teams, so it wasn't just a result of bad teams. In his 3 years the Astros made the playoffs, he never won more than 12 games.

Unlike someone like Clemens, Ryan's a HOF because of his longelivity and career-stats. If he had his stats but only played 12-15 seasons like most players, he'd be on the fringe of the HOF at best. Bagwell, for the time he played, was much more impressive. He just won't have a 25 year career.

 

wow...i couldn't disagree more. oh, well.

 

Bagwell only played 6 years more as an Astro than Ryan (I think). And he would of played more if it wasn't for the owner. That's not that much to say Bags contributed soo much more to Houston.

 

Are you talking about after Barkley went down? If so they didn't have a chance.

 

Of course you don't have a chance when you give up. Duh! Let's just smile about it!!!

 

Right--how do diminishing odds justify taking the night off for a huge game like that???

 

There would be no back to back Championship without the return of the houston native, Phi Slamma Jammain. How can that not mean more to the city of Houston? It's everything. We probably wouldn't even be discussing Bags on this website if it wasnt for Drexler.

 

It was actually a game and a half. In Drexler's defense, he was just one of 11 that gave up.

 

I don't think it was just Drexler. The enitre team was deflated. They were against the odds with Barkley, and without him they didn't stand a chance. Bashing the Rockets on Clutchfans seems kind of strange.

 

Where is my "delusional blind devotion" to Bagwell? I am simply stating facts. If/when Bagwell makes the HOF he will wear an Astros cap. The same with Biggio. I remarked how truly incredible Ryan was. Unfortunately for Astros fans, he spent too many season with the Rangers, although there was no guarantee of success had he stayed with Houston. Too bad Ryan couldn't hold that 3 run lead in 8th inning of the deciding game of the 1980 playoffs, otherwise the Astros may not have suffered an additional 26 years of not reaching the world series.

All that being said, I am truly hoping that Bagwell can play solid defense, hit .280+, drive in 80+ and score 80+. If he cannot throw and play defense effectively, then he should retire.

I still just find it hard to believe that you don't consider Bagwell the greatest Astro BY A LONGSHOT. I can understand that you (and others) don't consider him the greatest Astro but to not consider him the greatest Astro BY A LONGSHOT is truly indicative of someone who is not familiar with Astros history.

 

do you frequent the GARM??? happens all the time!!!

 

I just don't think the 90's count.

 

If we're going to count Ryan's entire career, not just his 8-9 years in Houston, and say that makes him, by a longshot, the greatest Astro ever over Bagwell, then we need to take this to its logical end.

Eddie Matthews had 500 HR. He's greater.
Joe Morgan won some rings. He's greater, maybe even greater than Ryan.
Clemens won some rings and perhaps is even greater than Ryan over his career. Perhaps Rocket is the "greatest Astro ever"?

 

Why didn't you say that from the beginning? If we toss out the '90s, then hell yeah, Ryan's the greatest. And Alan Ashby. And Don Wilson. And Jimmy Wynn. And the Rooster.

 

Never overestimate the heart of a champion.

 

I assume Mr. Meowgi is implying that Bagwell took performance enhancers even though the "steroid era" started after his monster 1994 season (unfortunately cut short by a broken hand and the strike).

I guess we need to throw out the 60s and 70s ("greenie era"), so you have to eliminate Wynn and Wilson from your list.

 

No, not at all. Baseball just wasn't as cool, esp the Stros.

 

Man you are bitter about that. What if Dream went down? Would you still think they had a chance?