NY has the Mets and Yankees in baseball, Giants and Jets in football, Islanders and Rangers in Hockey, the FC and Bulls in soccer, and even a lacrosse team. A total of 10 major league pro sports teams to just the Spurs not mentioning the Woman's sports teams.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bX1kMlG8c7Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> The NBA can only help a poorly mismanaged team so much.
Here's what I mean when I say "rigged". First, I think there are players and referees (very few and far between) who take money to shave points. Its naive to think this never happens given the times we know it has happened in the NBA and college in the past. This is unfortunate but mostly nothing can be done about it. Second, I think the league doesn't go out of their way to "fix" games. BUT..... I DO think they react to some very vocal/powerful voices in the NBA too easily (owners and GM's) and therefore we get situations like what happened to Yao in the 2005 playoffs or what has been happening to Harden the last several games. Its just enough where it CAN make a difference in games and even in series (Portland 2014 anyone?), but isn't so prevalent or organized to create a storm of controversy. Therefore we get the status quo and we either learn to accept it, or hope Rockets Mgmt fights back by complaining. Short of stopping watching altogether, as a fan that's all there is to do. I love watching NBA basketball and the above isn't enough to make me stop watching...yet. And for those that look down their nose at me for believing the above, I'm fine with that. Doesn't mean there isn't a problem.
I actually read Tim Donaghy's book about the whole ref scandal a few years ago. Good book. Pick it up for an entertaining read. Surprisingly he claimed that refs actually are subjected to review meetings on a regular basis and that they actually are encouraged to "do a good job" and "follow NBA protocol." So at least there's that...but what exactly "protocol" is, who knows. What's become clear to me is that the NBA obviously encourages refs to manipulate games...in WHATEVER capacity. Could be something as simple as a touch foul or defensive 3-second violation because they're late for a TV timeout (those fouls/violations almost rarely get replayed), something subtle like calling a few consecutive touch fouls to get a team in the penalty early in the quarter, or something as major as a phantom charge that completely changes the momentum of the game for either team depending on who the ref personally favors. Some refs are influenced by a rowdy home crowd too, or a piece of **** crowd (Toyota Center) and depending on the ref they may take advantage either way. Donaghy also said that some refs do in fact have personal beefs/jealousies/etc. with players and intentionally stick it to them with **** calls to get them in foul trouble...which may or may not explain why Yao was in foul trouble a lot early in his career. Funny, but you'd think that the "best refs in the world" would be above any of that. I don't know if the league itself necessarily favors one team over the other or big markets over small ones (although probably, at least in the playoffs), but my theory is that they like to keep most games close, and they instruct refs to do the best job they can to keep them that way. Vegas lines may or may not be involved with any of that, but it's amazing how many games end up almost exactly where the lines are set. Refs clearly have an ability to play a part in that fact in basketball more than in any other sport. And we all know there's superstar calls, rookie calls, vendetta calls, foul calls that are meant to get a struggling player going by getting to the line, etc. How anybody could even deny any of that is laughable...but I guess having close games and household names putting up huge numbers sells tickets and bring ratings so I guess I can see their angle, even though it obviously messes with the integrity of the game.
Yeah, but you are now claiming the opposite of Rocket River. He is saying that the league isn't helping big market teams like the Knicks succeed. This thread is great.
I don't agree with RR and things have changed since that draft. Something called on-line sports gambling exists and has existed since the turn of the century. This made sports gambling huge because you didn't have to go to Vegas to bet on a sports team. Now, people can bet every night on their team. That's why the Knicks suck, because a lot of NYers bet on them. That's why the Bulls aren't winning anymore championships. I know you are convinced otherwise, but I believe if you follow the money you will get the answer and sports betting is a multi-billion dollar industry. To think all that money does not have a say. Well, that's just naive.
My understanding is that the bigger the business gets, the more likely the mob is to go legit. They are making too much money on the act of betting to get involved in influencing the bets. So the corruption if any would be on a small scale as in one referee feeling he needs to get his cut, and not on a large scale. As far as NBA leadership, everyone makes more money if LA, NY, and Boston are gold, so I think the execs root for them to succeed and get the big names, but they clearly aren't controlling that. Jordan would not have been in Chicago. Lebron would not have been in Cleveland. Shaq would not have been in Orlando and so on. Do I believe in rogue refs. Yes. But that's about it. The players earn enough not to cheat. The mob makes enough not to cheat. The execs have a business making enough not to cheat. It's really the refs who are at risk.
it doesn't make sense. If the league was rigged as some of you claim, don't you think it would need the teams to actually agree? So they would be the accomplices. Why would you want to support them? If they did not agree to the rigging, don't you think they would have confronted it already? Ultimately, it's the owners who give the league management power. They can get rid of all of them if they think they are hurting the league.
75% of clutchfans have figured it out, the NBA is rigged!! Hakeem, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Duncan etc were all not really that great, it was all rigged to let them win or dominate. In fact every game, series, was scripted just like the WWE! Jordans shot over Elo, scripted. Magics baby skyhooked preplanned, Hakeem domination over Robinson, a divejob. And on and on. And judging by the reaction to the Rockets/bulls game, the nba/refs/ are clearly rigged against the Rockets this season, so no sense in watching.
Not sure what you're saying. I understand you agree with "we consistently have absolutely terrible mind boggling calls" Teams would not need to agree. Each NBA team has an owner, 30 owners own the NBA. They are independent organizations trying to win as many games as possible. All it takes to rig a game is missing a few calls on one side and calling some bad calls on another. For example, the Hawks game they called several travels late in the game which they haven't called all season (most of which were not travels), they discounted Terry's and-1 layup, and called a foul on Howard when Schroeder pushed him win under a minute. Those 4-5 calls in the last 3-4 minutes can be 10 or more points. You know how much 1 point changes everything in the last minute of the game, 10 points should determine who wins in the last 5 minutes, especially if they have been keeping a team in it all game. Anyways, I am out of this thread.
75% of the voters think the NBA is rigged?? Rigged for what exactly? One post on here was claiming that the calls in the Rockets-Jazz playoff series were rigged in favor of the Jazz. Why on Earth would the NBA want the Utah Jazz to advance in the playoffs rather than the Yao-TMac Rockets? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Don't know. What I do know is that if I have to watch Noah pull his pants any more I'm peeing myself. I think he must be a flasher.
Considering all other forms of human activity which have been proven to be manipulated by individuals and groups, it would be naive to think that professional sports is immune. Manipulation is probably a better word than rigged. Rigged conjures up the idea of an orchestrated effort. That certainly happens in manipulated human activity, too. It just isn't clear that is the case in professional sports. No whistle-blower has emerged disclosing a long or continuing history. A made shot can't be guaranteed, but a missed one can. Bad calls would be like missed shots. A public accounting by the NBA for each official every week -- kind of like player of the week, except a grade for all of them -- might go a long way in changing the perception that somehow manipulation by officials is happening. Most of us are accountable for job performance. That coupled with being able to utilize replay, on demand, might help. But then games might last for 4-5 hours. Maybe a challenge system, like the NFL has. There should be a practical remedy for improving the accuracy of officiating calls. We've all observed players flopping. That is a manipulation. Bad referee calls -- whether intended or not -- can certainly manipulate a player's state of mind, and therefore his play, and often the score. Trash talking has the same intent. Some bad calls are just bad calls because none of the referees were in a good position to see what actually happened. Altering the course of a game is on everyone's agenda. Players, coaches, owners all want to alter the outcome to a win. The goal from the get-go is for you to win and your opponent to lose, in direct competition. Normal, ethical alteration -- as in skill -- is what is wanted by fans. When an opposing team makes a dumb play or mistake, opponents don't rush over, put a hand on their shoulders and say how sorry they are. The team/player that is the beneficiary of a bad call doesn't rush over to the official and say, "No man, I flopped and I'm just really sorry." Or, "No, the ball really was out of bounds off me. It should be the other team's ball." Etc. Yet, to a player on the same team they immediately apologize for mistakes -- "Hey man, my bad." I think the 75% voting yes are just acknowledging the tendency of human nature to rationalize unethical behavior for personal gains -- both perceived and real, in all human activity.
The NBA does actually track referee performance and I believe fine them for egregiously missed called (Source: The Art of a Beautiful Game). But it's not public and nothing is really known about it.
Rigged is a loaded word... I think the league is biases towards some teams over others and the refs give their favorites chances to win. BUT the players have to score the points. The NBA is a business and has to make money to be successful. Houston needs to have more to offer to get the calls to go our way I guess.
It doesn't seem weird to you that the league always happens to be biased for everyone else and against your favorite team?
