1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Watching NBA Action
    GAME 7 ORLANDO vs CLEVELAND. Come join Clutch as we're watching NBA playoff action live!

    LIVE: NBA Playoffs!
    Dismiss Notice

Is it me or does it seem like we're trying to be like the Mavs?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by meh, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,386
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    Cuban came in and started applying his geek mumbo jumbo to the Mavs.
    Morey came in and started applying his geek mumbo jumbo to the Rockets.

    Mavs started accumulating assets in players by taking on big contracts no one else wants.
    Rockets started accumulating assets in players by taking on big contracts no one else wants.

    Mavs made personnel moves that can only be explained by weird BS stuff like "intangibles", ala an old, broken down Jason Kidd for everything the Mavs own besides Dirk.
    Rockets made personnel moves that can only be explained by weird BS stuff like "intangibles", ala Shane FREAKING Battier... no explanation necessary.

    Dallas hired an army of coaches.
    Houston is now hiring an army of coaches.

    Dallas wanted Kevin Martin, Caron Butler, Jeffery Haywood, etc.
    Houston wanted Kevin Martin, Caron Butler, Jeffery Haywood, etc.

    The only difference I see is that they have Dirk and we don't. :(
     
  2. RocketDonut

    RocketDonut Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2010
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    98
    2 championships. :grin:

    But seriously, who are the assets with big contracts nobody wants? Miller is the only one I can think of that maybe comes close.
     
  3. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    36,139
    Likes Received:
    22,660
    Yao and Tmac were suppose to be our Dirk. =(
    I really have no problem with the geekiness or the michael bubble.
    I love what morey has done with his GM duties and disagree that he's taken on big contracts. He's done a great job with the cap and acquiring cheap talent, what a great GM is supposed to do.
    My big problem is that he should stick with his GM duties and not put blame on others for stars not wanting to be here in Houston. It's still on him to get the players not the coach. And by players I mean players that can play basketball and are not just walking seven footers.
     
  4. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,386
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    You misunderstood. I mean Rockets taking on contracts in TRADES in order to obtain something. The two prominent examples being Luis Scola trade and the NY portion of the T-Mac.
     
  5. br0ken_shad0w

    br0ken_shad0w Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    302
    I'd say that's a very big difference.
     
  6. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Heh. I think you mean Haywood Jeffries, not Jeffrey Haywood.
    :grin:
     
  7. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    9,920
    Likes Received:
    10,897
    Actually I think he meant Brendan Haywood lol
     
  8. xomox

    xomox Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,455
    Likes Received:
    25
    like the mavs, but tough
     
  9. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    hey, once les alexander is willing to pay anything like mark cuban does, lets talk.

    for now, rockets will never match the mavs while alexander is here.

    Look at their payroll for the Cuban era and look at our pay roll for the Yao era.

    We celebrate when we sign Chase Budinger to this "bargain" rookie contract, while they celebrate when they sign Shawn Marion to a 40 year deal.

    That's the difference.
     
  10. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2000
    Messages:
    8,325
    Likes Received:
    78
    The Rockets emulating the Mavs? And the only difference is "they have Dirk"?

    Not hardly and not even close.

    An intellectual interest in statistics does NOT equate to $Ball. Cuban spends money on players in a manner that makes Morey and Les break out in a cold sweat.

    Morey tweaks things with contracts under $3M like Landry and Brooks. Cuban tweaks things like the then max contracts of Juwan Howard, Antawn Jamison and even a year of Antoine Walker.

    Not that it's the sole difference. But those players alone are highly more speculative than anything Morey has done. Or will do.
     
    #10 GATER, Jun 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  11. W22_STREAK

    W22_STREAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    8,008
    Likes Received:
    616
    ^lol, I should say, 40 million dollar deal. Not 40 year.
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,597
    Likes Received:
    19,950
    this. i don't see the comparison. cuban and les are very different. the mavs' approach to personnel seems very different from the rockets.
     
  13. rockets934life

    rockets934life Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    15,312
    Likes Received:
    249
    Do you mean our Rockets want to emulate a franchise that was won 50 games in 11 straight seasons, made two finals appearances over that span and has a renegade owner willing to spend whatever it takes to win?

    Minus the comparisons in the analytical aspects, not sure how trading for Jason Kidd and Shane Battier are similar. Kidd was still one of the top 10 PGuards at that time and was to be the final piece to a championship while Shane was simply just a great complement to Yao/Tmac.
     
  14. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    9,841
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    Dallas Mavericks payrolls:
    2010/11 - 90.7M
    2009/10 - 87.7M

    Houston Rockets payrolls:
    2010/11 - 72.7M
    2009/10 - 69.3M

    I can't find data that go back before that, but do we really need to elaborate on this point?

    If you look at it closely, the mid-level exception and ability to retain your own free agents at any cost has destroyed parity in the NBA. Teams like Dallas and LA just reload every year and climb higher and higher in payroll without any repercussion whatsoever.
     
  15. _RTM_

    _RTM_ Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,104
    Likes Received:
    462
    This complete crap

    Kobe Wade, Dwyane Bryant, LeBron Durant and Kevin James all are not happy with this crap

    [​IMG]
     
  16. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Do any trades of big name players happen anymore without an additional contract or two getting dumped along with the star player? I don't think that's exclusive to the Rockets or Mavs.

    Where did you hear that we are going to sign an army of coaches? The Rockets have acknowledged that they will have coaches specializing in certain areas but I haven't heard them say that they will have an inordinately large coaching staff like the Mavs did.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,010
    Likes Received:
    15,477
    The Mavs definitely have more than an "intellectual interest in statistics". Adjusted +/- was driving a lot of their decision making, including their coaching hire. Cuban blogged about Kidd's +/- numbers as justification when he made that trade. He hired the 82games.com guy (Roland Beech) to sit behind the bench every game and provide his insights as an analyst to their staff. He's big on that stuff.

    That said, yes the Mavs and Rockets are very different organizationally. The key difference is one team has a stable superstar in place, and the other team does not. Also, its no surprise that Cuban is more willing to gamble with his money than Morey is willing to gamble with his boss's money.
     
  18. danoman

    danoman Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    728
    If we move up to draft Donatas Motiejunas then I would say yes.
     
  19. Kam

    Kam Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    Likes Received:
    1,322
    Hah. Yeah I knew he mean Brendan, but got to give an oiler some love.
     
  20. meh

    meh Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    15,386
    Likes Received:
    2,259
    Wow, some of you people focus on some of the most anal things. I was speaking of philosophical similarities, not saying that the Rockets are some sort of Mavs clone. People with similar philosophies will still make different choices under different environment. If two both like to save 50% of his paycheck, one may save $20,000 a year and the other $2,000,000 a year. Doesn't make their philosophy on savings any different.

    Yeah, Mavs spend more money. No kidding. Les said he'd take on extra salary for the right star. When Dirk retires and the Mavs are no longer competing, don't tell me Cuban is still going to spend through the roof.

    And please, the Mavs use stats more than Morey. Morey is like a young upstart in the genre. The Mavs have been freaking doing it for years. It's not even close. Mavs freaking live and die by advanced stats. Cuban and Morey pretty much always fall in love with the same players: Iggy, Granger, KMart, Butler, Tyson Chandler, Melo, etc. They and Portland pretty much have their own fraternity of always being rumored for the same players.

    @aelliot. Morey said last year(?) that the Rockets were one of the few teams in the NBA willing to take on payroll. The thing with the Rockets is that they're very flexible. For example, they took on Jeffries contract and went over the luxury tax. Then traded Ariza and some other players to get back under it. And in the process, landed an extra pick and Jordan Hill. While most teams would reject the Jeffries trade in the first place out of fear for paying the tax. Sure, Dallas didn't care to get under the tax, but they're also trying to win now and has a richer owner.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now