Is Duncan joining Yao as a wussy in the eyes of Rockets fans?

i think the only thing lacking from the rox taking the lakers is experience. we matched up well with them but inexperience in the playoffs killed us.

 

I was a bit dissapointed with Yao's play in the latter part of the season and the playoffs. I expected him to play Shaq the same way he did in the regular season, I guess I was wrong in having made that assumption.

Tim Duncan played better than Yao this offseason, as expected of course. The fact is neither one of these guys carried their team to the next round.

I don't think SamFisher hates Yao, as Rocket fans we expect alot out of Yao. I'm sure when Yao starts playing like Duncan, this criticizing will be at a minimum.

Another thing, you are not racist if you rightfully criticize someone

with that said I'm looking forward to next season

 

If you have read every post carefully, You would find Canoner2002's answer to this question in his first post in this thread.

 

as much as I want Yao to get more rebounds, I think it is a fact that he boxes out all the time, and let teamates to get the rebounds. Otherwise, how do you explain Shaq's low rebounding #'s against us? How do you explain our outrebounding most opponents as a team?

Whether letting Yao boxing out is the most efficient thing to do is an open question. And I am not defending Yao for not wanting the rebounds more. He seems to be contend with boxing out other teams' big men.

 

He got 11.2 rebounds a game, vs. 11.5 during the regular season.

That's low?

That is a total cop out Shaq was a better rebounder in his younger days; yet Hakeem was able to both rebound and box him out.

Great, or even good, rebounders can box out and get the rebound. That's what makes them great or good rebounders.

 

i get it as much as you do. but if tim duncan is such a good defender, he needs to go up to pop and ask for that assignment so he can guard shaq more.

please tell me that you realize Shaq's baby hooks and other post moves work on Duncan much better than they work on Yao, he can't get it up over Yao, while it's much easier on duncan.

yep, you admit that Tim Duncan was only guarded by Shaq in spots. so who was he guarded by more? Karl Malone? That dynamic shot blocker -- Karl Malone. so does it surprise you, really that Duncan could get more points against Malone than Yao can get against Shaq? Especially since Duncan's offense is better anyway.

i don't understand how you can be exasperated by my point when you are such a huge fan of using the matchup argument to discredit Yao.

Here are your points:

1. Yao only guarded Shaq half the time, so Cato deserves most of the Shaq stopper title. (comment found in the "Shaq vs. no yao" thread.

2. Yao played mainly Malone on defense, and Malone lit him up.

How about this:

1. Duncan was guarded by Malone most of the time. Do you seriously not think Yao could get 22 points a game if Malone was his primary defender? Yao can dominate Malone in the low post, barring those tricks that Malone does. Which, by the way, pulling the chair also worked on Duncan.

2. Bottom line, Shaq was a monster this series. If Duncan is better against him on D... why not play that matchup more? Also, the Spurs didn't double team to leave Malone open (probably they saw that was dangerous from our series), because if they did, then that's the crappiest double ever because Shaq still went off. If Yao could man up on Malone and not double down on Shaq, I'm pretty sure Malone wouldn't have had those easy jumpers. PLUS... Malone had one huge game, the others were average for him.

the fact is... Yao did better against Shaq than Duncan did. and neither was able to do what the other could not -- take their team to the next round.

no where do I say Yao's basketball skills are better than Duncan's. I'd NEVER say that.

i would like to see you skip an opportunity to take credit away from yao and defend another team's player over ours. give him some credit even, maybe. can you do that?

 

1. Yup, Karl did try to stop Duncan..and I don't recall him ever successfully doing the "pull the chair move" on Duncan, do you? Yao's inability to score on Karl was one of the most disappointing things about his play vs. LA.

Wrong, you're jumping to conclusions based on your hypersensitivity.

Those were not my points; so I'll tell you why and we'll stop there.

1. Yao only guarded Shaq half the time, so that should be recognized when trying to say that Yao "neutralized" Shaq, or deserves all of the credit. Please, dig up a quote were I said Cato is the "Shaq stopper"?

2. Wrong, that wasn't my point at all. But if you're going to trumpet Yao as "stopping" Shaq based on the limited amount of play, or you're going to say that Duncan got lit up by Shaq based on an even smaller sample, than you could also, using your reasoning, say that Yao got burned by Karl.

I don't think Yao "stopped" SHaq, although his defense on him wasn't bad. I also don't think Yao was "burned" by Malone, nor did Duncan do either of those two things.

I'm just saying that the logic that you and others use can be used both ways, apparently to your great agitation.

 

Funny thing. I only saw about 1 quarter of the series. It was game 3(or was it game 4?) on ABC. And Malone was messing up Duncan real bad in the post. And yes, he did get Duncan to fall on the floor with a "pull the chair" move.

 

i saw malone pull the chair a couple of times on duncan, i guess u dont like yao and just try to bash him whenver u can, the annoucners even said it, and they praised malone for his defensive tactics.

 

LOL, I stand corrected then.

Stupid move. God I hate karla.

Hey sup123; you need to look in the mirror before you whine about people constantly bashing....

 

LOL. I didnt even watch the whole series but I counted at least 2 times Malone SUCCESSFULLY made the "pull the chair move" on Duncan. Malone also made his trademark reaction by pointing to the other basket. Did u even watch the games? Of course I wont be surprised with your observation as u also saw cato guarded shaq most of the time.

 

Even though Duncan had a tough time trying to score on Malone, at least he's about the same size, Duncan has about 1 or 2 inches on Malone.

I found it disgusting that Yao couldn't dominate when he was guarded by Malone, almost a foot advantage.

 

I think fa9999 started this thread just want to say Duncan didn't play well in the Lakers series also, thus explains why Yao struggled in the Lakers series too. See, even two times MVP can't handle the Shaq/Malone frontline combo, not to mention Yao. I think that is fa9999 what to say.

I don't think he, yipeng, or anyone else has the impression that Yao is in the same level as Tim Duncan already.

After watching the Lakers vs Spurs series, I have to admit I have been a little hard on Yao for the loss of series vs Lakers. Shaq and Malone are great defenders. Even Duncan had to shoot a lot of outside jumpers to get his point, it was extremely hard to score point in the paint, and Malone even had the help of double team from Kobe, George occasionally.

Of cause Yao can't use it as excuse forever, he has to play better next time. If Duncan is a Rox, I believe we can win the series. Look, Steve Francis is better than Parker (you can argue all you want, but at this stage, Francis is way consistent than Paker), Cat is better than Bowen (Cat can't stop Kobe either, but he can score a lot of points against Kobe), JJ and Manu's performance in Lakers series is a wash.

Yao has to learn to lift his game in next season, and be more consistent. I expect him to get at least 19pts / 9 rebs next season, and I don't want to see he gets 24pts/ 10 in Jan and Feb, and 15pts/ 7 rebs in Match and April to get his season average. I want his consistent performance and finish strong in the end of season and playoff.

Can Yao do that?

 

Oh, BTW, Malone was Yao's primary defender in the second game due to Shaq's foul trouble. Yao had a great start, score like 12pts against Shaq in the first half.

But after Malone guard him, he only made 1 or 2 baskets and basically a non-factor and disappear in the second half until game entered garbage time. He did finish with 22pts but 6 pts were in the garbage time.

That was why the criticisms from this board started, I believe.

 

Even though Yao had a tough time trying to score on Malone, at least he's not at his prime yet, Malone is also clearly stronger than Yao.

I found it disgusting that 2-time MVP Duncan at his prime couldn't dominate when he was guarded by Malone, almost a grandfather figure in the league.

 

Good points Iny2k. I will pray that Yao hits a double-double average next year.

 

Thanks, that is my wish too.

I don't even say 20/10 is a must for him, but I hope he can play his best bball and lift his game to another level in April, May or June (ok, playing in June maybe too much to ask )

 

G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

First Round
5 5 41.8 34-66 .515 0-0 .000 13-44 .295 3.60 7.60 11.20 3.6 .60 2.80 2.20 4.40 16.2

Conference Semifinals
6 6 41.7 54-85 .635 0-0 .000 27-62 .435 4.30 10.20 14.50 2.0 .17 4.33 2.83 4.00 22.5

Tell me Shaq didn't play much better against Spurs than against us?

Having said so much, let me repeat my opinion, Yao is not at the level of TD, KG or Shaq, not at this moment. All players, especially big men, have good and bad stretchs in a season. But great players manage to have good stretchs when it is most important. Yao has not been able to do so. He has a lot to learn. But calling him wussy without seeing his achievement is quite unfair, Samfish. we need to set our expectation realistic and just be patient.

 

RE: malone pulling the chair on Duncan. I will make the A-Train bet with you. You leave the BBS if I am right, I leave the BBS if I am wrong.

Want to own up to that one?

You accuse me of not seeing things two-sided? I'm was only bringing it up to show you that your tired argument has two sides. I always qualify my arguments, do you?

In any case, the bet, how about it? Real man takes this bet, Sam. Pandora tomorrow sam takes this bet.