Is Duncan joining Yao as a wussy in the eyes of Rockets fans?

Hate to say it, but Shaq and Kobe are the best 2 players in the league, and by far, especially under presure/double-teaming. TD couldn't be effective when double teamed, 4 games in a row. KG will be the next victim of Shaq/Kobe. Last year when Shaq was way out of shape, Spurs/TD got lucky. This game, they are not even close. And this is when TD is at his prime, and Shaq declining.

Yao could be that kind of dominant player, with proper rest/conditioning, some good coaching, and a good PG.

 

i think this had to do with getting malone and payton. sure payton wasn't effective but malone brought a lot more than whoever manned their PF position last year. plus the thought in the back of the spurs' head when all four are on the court must be 'ok if i double team him...the other one is open...what to do?'

 

Yah right. Duncan is a wuzzy. How bout shaq? He just had malone, payton and kobe to cover his ass. Tim, he had a 22 yo pg, a defensive specialist and an argentinian basketball star. yes. Duncan is a wuzzy. Its his fault not to have three future hall of famers for teammates. He just sucks.

 

I thought you were gonna say the league was gonna be dominated by wussy big men from now on.

 

To call Duncan soft is ridiculous. But he isn't clutch, and appears to lack a certain essence that the inner-circle greats (Jordan, Bird, Magic) all possess.

No shame in not being in that circle. But I've seen Duncan hyped to the effect that he might eventually be the greatest player in NBA history. So far, he isn't close.

 

Fa79999

why did you start this thread?

I am having trouble figuring your point. Until recently I thought you were arguing one of two dubious propositions:

1. Yao and Tim Duncan played equally well against the lakers, carrying the implication that they are about the same quality of player; and/or

2. Yao's performance against the Lakers wasn't sub par because Duncan only got 21 points and 21 rebounds in Game 5;

and finally we have a new entry into the fray from your last post:

3. People who criticize Yao's play do so because they are racists.


So which is it, or is it all of them?

 

Well, you look at Shaq's numbers, and your logic will conclude that our big men get the job done better on D.

As I said before, TD's number look better when compared with Yao's, but you have to consider how often he touches and shoots the ball. He didn't live up to the expectation.

If you actually watched the games, you will see TD showed hesitation, and was slow on many occasions. At times, he held the ball for 10 secs not doing anything, or trying to hand the ball to someone. And he got stripped the ball so many times. These are all same to the things we complain about Yao. Considering where TD is, I'd say Yao isn't doing so bad.

 

Maybe not racists. But some criticism is not objective, such as yours. You only quote numbers that support your argument, but ignore numbers that are against it. Just look at Shaq's scoring and rebounding. The thing is Shaq spend so much energy neutralizing Yao, he wasn't such a force in those games.

 

Please.

Did I ever say that Shaq had an easier time guarding Yao, or that Radoslav Nesterovic did a better job guarding Shaq than Cato and Yao? No, I didn't. Cato and Yao did a much better job on Shaq than Nesterovic, Willis, and Duncan, (though Duncan didn't guard Shaq as much as Nestervoic and Willis as he is not their starting Center) though Duncan & Rose did a much better job on Malone than did Yao & Taylor & cato.

Look, I see Fa79999 starting this thread and plaintively trying to argue that Duncan and Yao had comparable series.

He did this on a night when Duncan scored 21 points, grabbed 21 rebounds, and hit an unbelivable clutch shot.

Put it this way, if Yao had as bad a series as that against the Lakers, the Rockets might still be playing right now.

Considering where TD was after his second season, leading his team to the NBA championship, whichh included going through the Lakers and NBA finals MVP, I'd say Yao is a little bit behind the pace set by TD, no?

 

I'm not a YOF but come one
Tim had help. . . a hall of Fame Center [yes the mermaid is going
to the hall]

As much as Like Steve . . . he is not a lock for the hall of fame
like Robinson was at that time
also

He did not have to contend with the zone or a more
mature Kobe
a Kobe that is playing with 3 hall of famers

Rocket River

 

ONE MORE THING . . .

Tim only had to do it for a 50 game season
not saying it is an asterick
but
Wear and Tear would not be as big an
issue for yao in 50 games as oppose to the regular 82

the transition from being in th NCAA maybe playing 50 games
all year. . to 82 PLUS playoffs . . . .. was easier for tim in his second
year than yaos


Rocket River

 

Sure Yao didn't have as much an impact as TD in the playoff, and stating he did is plain wrong. However, declaring Yao a wussy as you and some other people did was wrong too. Two wrong doesn't make a right. Since you pointed out the stats that fa79999 ignored, I was just pointing out the stats you ignored.

BTW, please don't mention that "clutch" shot any more. A lucky shot is a lucky shot, nothing more. Even TD admitted that was just a lucky shot.

TD got 21 pts one night, but that is expected because Spurs go throught him almost on every posession. They heavily depend on TD and Parker. Rox spread the shots among Yao, SF, Cat, JJ and MoT. TD got a lot of rebounds, but Shaq got a lot of rebounds too. Why? Yao was boxing out Shaq and Shaq was boxing out Yao on almost every play. Shaq and TD were not doing the same, that is why they both got a lot of rebounds.

You also overlooked one thing. Lakers let Shaq D up Yao, but let Karla D up TD. Don't say it is 4 and 5. Karla can D up Nestrovic easily. Lakers figured they could get away from putting Karla on TD and save Shaq on the offensive end. Considering how much Shaq wore down by defending Yao, Yao had a lot of contribution to the series. They just don't show on stat sheet.

If Yao had as "bad" a series as TD, AND everything else remained same, we might be still playing. But where did all these touches and shots come from?

 

Same place the 21 rebounds came from.

 

Everyone is expecting this and that from Yao, and certainly he didn't outperform expectations.

But Yao isn't as good as Tim Duncan, we all know that. Meanwhile, the real Tim Duncan, did he outperform his expectations? For a two time MVP, the go to man for the Spurs, he did not, and the Spurs lost. He was shut down in a few of the games, postings Yao-like stats. Yao, meanwhile, played better defense on Shaq than Duncan did. Although Samfisher will argue with you till the end of the world about it.

Still TD had a better series, statistics-wise and impact wise. But he fell short of his expectations as far as Yao fell short of his. So either we should give some more credit to Yao, or we come to the realization that either everyone has down series, and the Lakers focused on both players and played tough D.

So TD scored more points, people will keep using the fact that Yao played bad D on Malone. Okay, first of all that was a game plan, give malone open shots and make him beat you. Second of all, Shaq was guarding Yao, Malone was guarding Duncan a lot of the time. Who had an easier chance to score? I can't believe people won't look at both sides of the matchup argument.

So Yao could have elevated his game and carried us. And he didn't. But even if he played like Duncan would we have won the series? No... they have better players and better coaching and more experience. But Yao did NOT have a horrible series okay? What would have happened if we had Rik Smits in his prime instead of Yao? Sweep by double digits each game.

One last thing. Duncan's second year championship. C'mon. That was the Bulls / Lakers interregnum. The whole league was out of whack and the powers of the west weren't estabished yet. You can plainly see it now, in today's NBA that team wouldn't have won.

 

OK, what part of Yao guarded shaq maybe half the time, and Duncan guarded shaq maybe 25% of the time, and was only guarded by Shaq in spots; do you not get?

Do you need me to explain to you why this is an inadequate comparison.

Yao did not play well during the Lakers series. I know this because he played well against the Lakers in the past; his performance against them was like most of his performances from Mid march onward: subpar.

BTW, Shaq averaged 11 boards against us in the playoffs, if that's a "Yao-like" stat, I'd be real happy....unfortunately it's not.

Yipheng, Tim Duncan was a better player than Yao in 1999, much much better. He is a much better player than Yao now. I don't think you could find anybody objective who would disagree in any way, shape, form, or mannner, aside from a few crazed Yao fans.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Yao is a bad player. But he is not as good as Tim Duncan, and his playoff performance wasn't as good either. It's not bashing or hating to admit that. You think it is, but its not.

BTW, if you want to look at blind, hypercritical bashing, go back to the Laker game threads and look at Fa7999 posts. They generally run the gamut from "Francis Sucks!" to "Stupid Francis", with an occasional "dumb mobley".....if you just read this guy's posts you'd think Francis scored -34 points and had 56 turnovers.

 

Then Shaq would have got 20-20 games also.

You see, you never realized that Yao's low rebounding number is the reason we outrebound most opponents! Yao boxes out their best rebounders, and gave us the edge.

I guess it is pretty hard for you to see it because you dislike Yao as much as YOFs like him.

Yao should improve his rebounding, but it isn't as bad as the stats look.

 

Is Yao as good as Tim Duncan?

Yes or No.

Answer the question.

 

Do you really believe this, or are you just trying to defend Yao???