btw,Ric you think that Pearson is/ will be better than Mike Williams. Kiper jr. says that McKinnie and Williams are battling it out for the #1 OT spot. He has McKinnie #5 aned Williams #6. Ric, are you sure you weren't posturing or jumping the gun? fwiw, he hasHenderson out of the top ten and he has the other utenn dl as the #1 prospect.
And we all know Mel Keiper's never wrong. I bet if you asked the scouts for every team to rate the top 10 at each position you wouldn't find one set that matched up. The two are absolute polar opposites. IMO, despite all of the quickness, Williams is still a fat @ss at 262(!)lbs. I look at Pearson and I can't help but think of former Tampa Bay standout Paul Gruber. I think the general idea is that he's much more polished than Williams, and also might be a better fit for a team that pulls tackles or sets up alot of screens as he's alot more moble and fast than Williams. With Williams, there is perhaps more upside, but I think also a much greater chance of failure. I think Williams would be a better fit on the right side, where he can concentrate on mashing people in run blocking. Manny - the reason I bring up Mandrich is that he was, at the time, the higest rated player at the combine ever (at the time, anyway). He was thought of the same way that people think of McKinnie now. There is no such thing as a sure thing. I also think people place a little bit too much stock in that 'no sacks ever' thing. It's a nice stat, but I'm pretty sure that he'll give up sacks just like every other tackle once he gets to the NFL. Haven - As long as were throwing away money like there's no tomorrow, I'd rather have Roaf @ $5mil from New Orleans instead of Blake @ $6mil.
it seems to me that with the relative strength of offensive linemen in the expansion draft, the Texans are not likely to use their first pick in the college draft on an offensive lineman.
There are too many injury questions surrounding Roaf for the price you'd have to pay. Many questions around Boselli, too, but at least he's younger. I've heard that the Saints wanted Roaf to retire.
Ack. I'm late to the party... As some of you know, I'm in the "McKinnie for 2002!" corner (and for good reason). This team has holes at every position, so it almost doesn't matter who we take in the draft (remember, I said "almost..."). If we happen to take a QB first, I don't have a problem with that, granted it's not the #1 pick. Take McKinnie now; draft a QB next year. That's my mantra, and I'm sticking to it. Ric, I know you're probably sick of me repeating myself over and over again, but that's just how I feel. Off topic: I spoke with one of the vice presidents of the Cowboys organization last night (my ex-boss), and he likes what the Texans' management is doing. (I told him to tell JJ to stick to the business side of the Cowboys, because he's killing the team come draft time...)
I agree. I was saying if $$ didn't play a factor. If Roaf was making $500,000, I'd bet they would take him. A couple of more selfserving points. Given the quality of tackles in the college draft, the quality of free agents, and the quality of tackles avalable in the expansion draft, it would seem to me to me that it's a buyer's market this year. I'd imagine that the Texans will be able to pick up someone either in free-agency or perhaps in the second round of the draft that will do the job somewhat as well. It also seems that left tackles tend to be a big target by other teams in free agency, when they come up. I wonder if that (assuming I'm not seeing things) would play into drafting McKinnie. Also, I was looking over the expansion list. 1.)What the hell were the Titans thinking by paying Michael Booker $3,000,000. and 2.)A couple of DT's seem really intresting to me: Jerry DeLoach and Reggie McGrew. They both are young, seem to be super-talented, and and not that expensive. Anybody have any comments on either? Finaly, as long as we're talking Kueiper, his latest headline for ESPN is, "Carr reminiscent of Troy Aikman." As much as I hate the Cowboys, starting with a Troy Aikman would not be a bad way to start.
If we are intent on nabbing Carr in the draft, this ESPN report on Carr is encouraging... David Carr's Senior Bowl Report Card
oh, i see... you admit to being biased, yet i'm the one who doesn't watch enough college football... ok. to be honest, i have no idea because, frankly, it's a bogus stat. on any given play, linemen get help from their linemates, they stunt, they pull, the back helps out... it's not not impressive, it's just overblown. and fyi, terrence metcalf only gave up 1 sack in his career and none this year, despite it being just his second at LT. no, to compare a college senior with two of the best, most established LT in the nfl is foolish. no one, self included, is denying mckinnie's greatness. i've posted on many ocassions he's probably the safest pick in this draft. but pearson (who's a year behind mckinnie, btw) has the size and talent to match up with mckinnie, so the notion that mckinnie is one of a kind isn't necessarily true. pearson is just as good, and some think he'll ultimately be better. bottom line is that they're comparable.
you simply can't do that, there are too many "what if" factors involved. what if manning gets hurt, what if simms doesn't make the leap, what if houston wins 4, 5 games and doesn't get a prime draft position? you have to draft with your eye on 2002 and 2002 only. if carr's the best player, you nab him, and if, next year, you're picking #1 again and there's eli, you're in the cat bird seat, win-win situation. see above. and don't forget, not only do the texans have a chance to snag boselli or roaf, there will be two or three young LT's available in free agency, too, including tarik glenn. are you sure those aren't senior rankings? TFY, which, i think, is the best draft site on the 'net, ranks mckinnie fourth overall and pearson seventh. williams is 13th, btw. the thing about williams -- he's a right tackle. i know, i know, simms was left-handed, but that wasn't a factor on running plays and the like, so i don't think scouts rate williams with mckinnie and pearson. i mean, he's still a top 15-20 prospect, and will probably go in the 10-15 range, but i think he's a small, tiny step behind mckinnie and pearson.
You're missing the point. Haven, who is an ardent BC fan, has told you that he saw McKinnie in person and raved about him. He would be the last person who would give a Miami player props. However, that's your opinion to think that. An opinion is just like a nose...we all have one. Umm, I beg to differ here. Playing LT might be, arguably, the hardest postion to play on the O-Line. To never give up a sack is impressive, especially considering that not only are we talking college, but we're talking high school, all kinds of organized football. Believe me there are plenty of LTs that wish they could put that on their resume. That's not the point I was trying to make...sorry to be confusing. The point I was making is that McKinnie is rated as high or higher than Ogden, Pace, and now Boselli (forgot about him) when they were coming out for the draft . Of course, those guys are better than McKinnie right now because they have the experience on the next level. But I'm talking about when they came out of college...McKinnie was just as good or better than any of them. But, Ric, I don't think that you fully appreciate what McKinnie can do. Just ask haven...he'll tell you firsthand. McKinnie is close to 6'8" and 340 lbs, yet he can run a 40 right around 5 seconds and his wingspan is like over 70 inches. That is what sets him apart from guys like Pearson. If Pearson is that good, then why does Mel Kiper, Jr. have McKinnie as the #3 rated prospect (behind Peppers and Harrington) and Pearson #23? From what you have been saying, there shouldn't be that wide of a discrepancy, now should there? But maybe Kiper is *biased*? Don't believe me..here's the website for Kiper http://espn.go.com/melkiper/index.html
mckinnie was in the band in HS; he's only been playing organized football for six years. and like i said, it's not not impressive, it's just a overplayed buzz phrase. technically speaking, an end could beat mckinnie on every down, but if, for whatever reason, said end doesn't sack the QB, it keeps alive mckinnie's streak. see what i mean? maybe the QB scrambled, maybe the FB picked up the end, or maybe the end overran the pocket... extreme example, but the point is it's an impressive "gee whiz" stat that doesn't really mean anything. it's akin to saying team A wins a lot, therefore their QB is a winner. i think the fact mckinnie's not a sure-fire #1 in a draft devoid of a sure-fire #1 says something about how scouts and nfl personnel perceive him. obviously, we're talking about a top 5 pick, so let's not pretend i'm slighting him in the least. but if he were pace or boselli good, he'd be a player in the texans, panthers' and lions' plans, yet he doesn't seem to be. please, don't hamper your efforts by throwing mel kiper at me. if he has mike pearson rated 23rd, quite simply, he's insane. pearson will be a top 10 pick. and i'll repeat: mckinnie's the safest pick in this draft; i know full-well what he can do. this isn't a knock on him at all. pearson isn't as thick as mckinnie (tho, he's the same height), but like bryant, he has the wingspan. he's also very smart and very atheltic, too (moreso than mckinnie, who, nonetheless, is still athletic and, reportedly, smart); i mean, he started at LT for steve spurrier as a freshman. think about that. whether he's better than mckinnie now, or down the line, is irrelevant, anyway. the point is that mckinnie's not the only franchise-building LT in this draft.
btw, manny, i spent the better part of this year surfing countless draft sites, scrounging for information on prospects. it's why i think kiper is all sound and fury. there are three i've come to like and count on. TFY is probably the best. they rate mckinnie 4; pearson 7 among their 250 prospects (http://www.tfydraftpreview.com/2002/Position Rankings/Top 200.htm). boomer's site is run by a guy named rob rang, who i've exchanged emails with -- he's a former coach-turned-scout. he rates mckinnie/pearson 1-2 among tackles and compares pearson favorably to mckinnie (http://www.boomersdraft.com/02OTs.html) lastly, matt gambill is another independent scout with wonderful connections (he's setting up an interview for us with david carr). he doesn't provide commentary, unfortunately, but he, too, ranks mckinnie and pearson 1-2 among tackles. if you'd like to read a collection of pearson accounts, draftbook is a wonderful site, and not just because they reference us (http://www.draftbook.com/2002/mikepearson.html) and lastly, while i don't put a lot of stock in tsn's war room, fwiw, they rate mcknnie an 8.8 and pearson 8.6. so i'm not pulling this from my ass; pearson is a legitimate prospect with a big upside. he, like mckinnie, is a franchise LT.
So, Ric: Do you think that if a QB never threw an interception, that would be a "gee whiz" stat? Or how about a RB that has never fumbled the football? Another "gee whiz" stat? I know that I'm getting hung up on this, but I don't think that is a stat that needs to be "trivialized", which is what you are doing with it. And I believe you when you say that you are not pulling this stuff out of your ass because obviously you spend a lot of time on it. However, 2 things: 1) Whether you agree with him or not, Mel Kiper, Jr. is the one on ESPN during the draft, not you, not me, and not any of those other guys. Does that mean Kiper's word is the gospel? No, but I think more people are going to take stock in someone who is that well-known compared to others. 2) Your other ratings that you gave had McKinnie ahead of Pearson but not by much, but if you factor in Kiper's...it still gives McKinnie a sizable edge (due to #3 to #23). Now why do I bring that up? Because if they are really that comparable, then they should be pretty damn close no matter whose ratings it is . It is pointless to continue this, and really to tell you the truth, I don't care who the Texans draft because I'm a Broncos fan. However, I don't want to hear people whine if they pass on McKinnie just like when people whined about their teams passing on Warren Sapp. You think that those teams wished they could have done that draft over again?
Hush! Kiper think's David Carr's The Next Great Thing. So don't cripple my argument in defending McKinnie .
apples and oranges, manny. QB's and RB's control the football in the examples you give. if they overthrow a receiver, or put the ball on the ground, it's quantifiable; it's definitive. there's not a lot of gray area. he either fumbled, or he didn't; he either threw an interception, or he didn't. you can't say the same about mckinnie's streak. how often did the LG, or TE, or FB or QB bail him out? how often did he get double-team help on more explosive ends? how often did teams move their best pass rusher to the other side? it's not really a stat that's easy to quantify, and, it's open to interpretation. was that mckinnie's man? or was that? who was his assignment on that play? we're talking charcoal, here. and, btw, i'm not trivializing it, but if it's such a meaningful stat, why isn't terrence metcalf hailed in the same revered breath as mckinnie? ole miss had massive turnover on their OL this summer and he still posted a doughnut in 2001, despite it being just his second year at LT. for his career, metcalf has given up one sack while playing virtually every position on the line. why is he not hailed as the next whoever? it's a convienent stat that really doesn't tell you what you think it's telling you. i mean, all stats, in general, only tell half the story. this is a prime example. if there's a draft site on the net, i've likely been to it. and if kiper has pearson ranked 23rd, he is in the smallest of small minorities. and kiper's depth of knowledge is the last reason he's on tv and the others aren't. i mean, have you ever actually seen joel bushbaum? the overwhelming consensus is that pearson is a top 10 prospect.
I'm surprised Carr's touchdown to interception ratio hasnt been brought up that much. No matter how good you think he can be on the next level, you have to admit his 2 year touchdown-interception ratio is amazing. It may take hiim some time to adjust on the pro-level, but a quarterback who wont make mistakes is always a plus in my book.
