I have heard alot of threads and posts about how Steve is not a traditional PG and that he lacks court vision etc etc the list goes on and on. But I have faith in him to change his play into a pass first, get points in the flow of the game type player and score when needed. So I've always liked to compare Steve Francis to Gary Payton as IMO he is the perfect PG. Now when Gary came into the league there wasn't a whole lot of fuss made of him, so I thought I'd check out his statistics throughout his career. Gary Payton - 1st 4 years as pro: 5.9 apg Gary Payton - 2nd 4 years as pro: 7.5 apg Gary Payton - 3rd 4 years as pro: 8.67 apg Steve Francis - 1st 3 years: 6.5 apg There are pure PG's out there that rack up assist after assist from day 1, but Steve's game has always been score first since back in college and came to the Nba as a beginner at the PG spot. Now currently in his 4th year with Steve likely having an average of 6+ apg, he has yet to trust teammates enough to share the load. It took Gary 4 years to click, maybe it will take Steve 4 years too! *crosses fingers*
Notice that Payton continued to IMPROVE his assists from year to year but Steves continues to get WORSE 2000- 6.5 2001- 6.4 2002- 6.0 At this rate, Yao will catch him in a few years!
Yep, with youth come maturing as a player, people are ready to trade Francis and say "We need a real PG, look at Miller's assists per game!" Andre Miller has never played on a winning team in the NBA, didn't make the Clippers better at all, and isn't a true leader. When I saw the Clippers and I believe it was the Sonics start to get into a fight, and Maggette had to come in and break things up and Miller walked to the other side of the court I lost respect for him as a potential leader. PGs develop at a different pace. You could be Kidd who comes in passing the ball at a high rate, or Payton who developed slowly into the best PG or at least one of the Top 2 PGs in the league. People also forget, Francis only played one year of Division I college basketball, he's still learning the position. In some ways Francis is further ahead of Payton's development because he is a far superior scorer then Payton was at that age.
You haven't done much research because in Gary's 3rd year he had only 4.9 but in his 2nd year he had 6.2.
Isn't that the root of some of our problems? My belief is that great PG's are those that can score when necessary but that isn't their main focus or objective. Forget whether Francis is a SG or a PG. He's a very good player who can be great. Great players make thier teammates better. They make the game easier. You can debate all you want. Until Steve Francis stops driving into the lane with 4 defenders surrounding him, he will never be a great player.
But you can't discount what makes Payton the "Glove": defense. I don't see Stevie ever making the all-defensive team, let alone becoming a perennial defensive player of the year candidate.
I think that's the main problem with Francis. He isn't very good at setting up teammates with a nice pass. He doesn't create easy shots for other players. It's not a surprise our offense goes through periods of total crappiness.
Pretty much sums up my sentiments. It's not that great players never make mistakes. The mistakes they do make are not usually ones of forcing the action.
YR MIN AST PTS 90-91 27.4 6.4 7.2 91-92 31.5 6.2 9.4 92-93 31.1 4.9 13.5 93-94 35.1 6.0 16.5 94-95 36.8 7.1 20.6 95-96 39.0 7.5 19.3 96-97 39.2 7.1 21.8 97-98 38.4 8.3 19.2 98-99 40.2 8.7 21.7 99-00 41.8 8.9 24.2 00-01 41.1 8.1 23.1 01-02 40.3 9.0 22.1 02-03 40.8 8.8 20.8 Seems like something really clicked for Payton in his 5th year.
I agree Migg that anything could happen (even though I see more competitiveness in Kobe and GP). I just mean that no one should shortchange GP by just looking at half his game. His offense makes him a good point guard. His defense is what makes him a star and sets him apart.
I think Stevie is a great player, but most great passing PGs don't take as long as it did for GP. Payton is a rare case, I think Stevie has too much of a scorer's mentality to ever expect the guy to be a 9 assist/game type of player. Even someone like Marbury who is averaging about 8-9 assists this season is more of a scoring PG.
Kobe was all NBA defensive team during their 1st championship year. About Steve and Payton, that is very interesting, it puts a lot of hope in the hearts of us Rocks fans. I hope something clicks with Steve and he starts passing the ball a little faster and earlier in the shot clock....that alone would help his numbers, and more importantly get the Rocks some wins. DD
The poster posted Payton's averages for blocks of 4 years. Your statement is still wrong. Payton's assists went down dramatically his 3rd season and Francis averaged more assists during his first 3 seasons than Payton. Based upon your assumption, Francis hasn't played long enough for you to say that his assists are somehow "down" in comparison to Payton's.
MM, You're forgetting one thing. Gary Payton was a very efficient scorer (large hands and great ball control). Thus, he turned the ball over less than Francis when trying to score. Francis turns the ball over on *assist attempts* AND *scoring attempts*. Not to mention a few of those dribbling the ball of his foot, turnovers. Double whammy! Just look at Payton's turnover average (2.5). Francis? (3.8). His first year, 4.0. This year, 4.0.
Is it me, or is that a pretty brilliant career? I'm sure this is the wrong forum, but I could stop looking at those numbers - like Juan said - from the fifth year on... I mean 20 and 7 AND his defense from 94 - 03? That's a hall of fame career... we'll all be blessed if Steve can do it that well for that long.
