Info re the debate of who was behind the Battier/Gay trade

Morey already said a while ago that the Battier trade was partly based on Moneyball.

 

good point this should end all other conversation on this topic

 

I suppose you're asking about any future threads concerning that Gay/Swift for Battier trade. I would sure like to know why I keep seeing threads all the time concerning that trade.

On this thread, I like what some people have said about the trade, such as Rudy Gay not developing as quickly as he did with the Grizzlies if he remained with the Rockets due to not likely getting much PT under JVG.

For those members on this board who continue to moan and groan about that trade, I would like it if you would all just blame that deal sqarely on the team signing Stromile Swift to that long-term deal (four year-$22 million) in the 2005 offseason, and read my sig. Part of the deal was for the Rockets to get rid of that bad contract they signed Swift for because of the difficulty the team would have had otherwise in trading him away. Last season, he was only easier for the Grizzlies to trade away due to his contract having only one year remaining.

Everything being said here, I'll continue to say that the long-term signing of Stromile Swift ended up costing the Rockets a lottery pick in that 2006 draft.

 

Forget Gay, I wanted Roy. Damn you Portland.

Roy | Alston | Strawberry
McGrady | Francis | Head
Artest | Fernandez | Barry
Scola | Landry | Dorsey
Yao | Deke | Hayes

 

spilt milk

 

HP,
Hey, what's up? Long time no chat...

Okay, now what in the hell are you talking about? I know you hate the Spurs....doesn't everyone?

That said, I do not understand your linking the Ewing trade to the Scola trade. It does not make sense.

The Scoal trade was based one one team ACTIVELY pursuing a quality PF that the other team could not use. Also, the other team (Spurs) were desperate to shed salary (Butler) because of their other deals/commitments.

The Ewing trade was purely a sentiment trade by NY and a dump by Morey. Neither team has any intent on keeping either player. It was a favor to Pat Ewing by NY management. "Hey can you trade for my boy and make him feel wanted and let him wear my uniform for old time sake. I know you will release him, but, just a little ego boost for him before he goes over seas would be much appreciate."

One was a value trade....both teams got what they needed.
One was a meaningless sentiment trade with zero ramifications (no player will show up on an NBA roster anytime soon.

By the way, I will ALWAYS hate the Jazz far more than the Spurs. The Jazz fans are the worst and Sloan coached players have been and always will be the dirtiest.

Take care,
ROCKET!!!

 

The trade for Ron Artest was a tacit admission that the Battier trade was a failure. The Rockets were supposedly in win now mode, but didn't get out of the first round with Battier starting and logging heavy minutes. Shane has only had one good playoff game his entire career. He's going to be coming off the bench which is a good role for him.

 

yeah buddy! I noticed you posted here from the "last poster" data on this thread. I said...yeah! ROCKET!!! what's up. I'm doing cool. Had to give up my season tickets to move to Boulder, CO...though. sigh. It took my company 3 yrs to convince me to make this move and give up my tix. They made it worth my while finally, but still don't know if it's the right thing. I do have it in my contract to allow me to return to houston to work there during the conf finals and nba finals...should the rox make it. hope to exercise that options this year.

actually that was kinda a joke overflowing from another thread. it's not meant to make sense.

cheers

 

I am really sick of people saying we got robbed in that trade. Someone explain to me how we got robbed?

We unloaded a contract that no one could have possibly wanted. Please Please for the love of God remember that at that point in time we would have been stuck with Juwan Howard (on a untradeable contract), Stromile Swift (on a equally untradeable contract) and Chuck Hayes (on a non guranteed contract).

Assuming we took Gay and we would have had to extend him at the end of this season that would mean presumably that (rough figures):

T-mac (20 mil)
Yao (15 mil)
Gay (12 mil) assuming he developed under JVG.

Great thats like most of our cap space blown on three players and we would have still had those albatross contracts sitting on our books. For three years. Seriously who the hell honestly thinks we would have won more games with Gay on our team instead of Battier? Please note its GAY AND STROMILE SWIFT not Gay vs Battier. You should also note that the cap space provided by unloading that contract gave us flexibility to do the moves we have done in the last two years.

You can't say we got robbed, you just can't. We did the move on a economical team planning basis. Basketball trading isn't just about oh we'll draft as much talent as we can, you still gotta pay them some how. This is not the Mavs where we stockpile Luxury tax.

 

Dude do you even know what you are talking about? I don't even know where I can begin to disagree with this argument your putting forward...

Okay, lets take a look at this situation contract-wise.

Rudy Gay would have been on a ROOKIE CONTRACT!!! And he still would be at this season!!! And Battier's contract is always at 6 mil, which takes up way way way more space than a rookie contract!

Who said who would have won less games with Rudy on our team? Assuming we won less games, it wouldn't have mattered at all because we'd only have gotten higher draft picks than we have gotten in the past and also what did we achieve with Battier on this team so far? Have we got out of the first round yet?! Remember the regular season exists only for the post season!

Stromiles contract? It would be as juicy as any other exp contract this season!...just look at what we got with Bobby Jackson's contract! Plus Stro would have been more than useful as our backup C since Yao has missed so many games in the past 2 seasons.

We would have gotten exactly the same cap flexibility as we have got in the past whether the trade took place or not. If it was a money-saving move then we'd have even more reasons to be outraged about the trade...

Plus, while Rudy is on his rookie contract he would be awesome to us economically! And Stro's contract untradeable? Wasn't he just traded last season to NJ?!

As the OP said, Les needed convincing to do the trade. Les has stated that he is willing to go over the Lux Tax for a special player...how special can you get when you have Rudy Gay on your team...

Lets admit it, the trade was a horrible trade. It still is.

 

Well, I agree that the trade was more negative than positive. Rudy Gay is a better player than Battier but it's not like Battier is a horrible player. We did manage to get rid of Swift's ridiculous contract after all.

Also, Battier was chosen because he could space the floor for Yao with his 3's and provide defensive assistance for the team. At the time, the Rockets lacked good role players and Battier is definition of a role player. He's not overpaid but not underpaid, he's got high Basketball IQ, and not injury prone unlike our two stars.

The point is that Rudy Gay is a great player and a great talent but the trade didn't damage the organization enough for me to cry about it.

 

spilt milk

 

HP,
Bummer! But.....Boulder is a nice place, except for the snow. Hope you like shoveling. Been there, done that back in school at 'Cuse U. No thanks, this Texas boy don't do snow. Its only good for skiing.

Cool! I knew something was up. Had to be joking.

I hate to say this, just renewed my tix. Between my 1/4 season (whole season shared with buddies. I love our lottery system. It guarantees quality games)plus playoffs added to my tickets from vendors (they usually let me pick the games I want to attend) I am set. Totally stoked this year.

All is good. We got a ton of stuff going on with all the new construction.

Currently, disaster planning for the possible hurricane strike. Man, I am praying for it to stay on its easterly track.

Anyway, here is to a championship run this season!

All the Best,
ROCKET!!!

 

With that trade, there is no Scola, Landry or Artest. Probably no 22 game winning streak either. One move changes everything.

 

It really wasn't. You are implying that if the Battier trade would've been a success that we wouldn't have traded Bobby Jackson and 2 firsts for Artest. Which isn't the case, you ALWAYS make that trade. Worst case scenerio you lose the 27th pick and get a 1 year rental.

 

This is the first time in the last 10 years where I expect us to when a championship. I will not question any of the moves that have put us into this position.

The fact that we have more talent for less money than most of the league is a testament to how great Morey has been to this organization.

 

Good points and I agree with you. But I really hope people will stop crying about something that happened so long ago, although I can't stop them of course.

If you say anything about Battier not starting over Artest, people go crazy. But many of the same people cry and complain about us getting Battier instead of Gay. Artest vs Gay? Be for real...no comparison!

 

No you can't look at it that way, it would be Battier contract at 6 mill which is equal to Stromile's contract, respectively speaking you could say Gay would have cost us 6 mil in cap space had the trade not been done. Unless your seriously suggesting Swift would have done anything useful in our rotation. If you think that then I guess its fair enough.

And lets not mention the fact that NJ only took on Swifts contract this year amid some really questionable moves.

I still can't believe that anyone can suggust that Gay will win us more games. He can't play defence, he plays the same sort of role as Mcgrady, his not a good shooter to space the floor for Yao, his not a particularly strong rebounder. His volume of shots would be extremely low compared to his current rate and there is no way in hell he would have been allowed to developed the way he did if JVG was on the team.

Your justification is that if we got him we would have won less games and then got higher draft picks? This board can't even stand losing games in a normal regular season without going blame t-mac, blame Yao ming. The general fan base would not stand for losing seasons. I wouldn't stand it. You want tanking seasons? See Memphis, Celtics, and Chicago. Alot of high draft picks and nothing to show for it with the exception of Celtics. But honestly do we really want to put Yao Ming through what the CEltics went through before this year?

Rudy Gay is not the player to fit with Yao and T-mac. His a good player don't get me wrong, but he wouldn't have made us get past the first round. What could he have done. Could he possibly have helped us out against Utah? I would say no, give how well Kirlenko would have played him and how his shoddy defense would have probably put Yao into more foul trouble.

 

that's a pretty adamant statement considering that his post was full of well thought comments and yours is based almost completely on speculation.

Rudy Gay is a match-up nightmare for opposing defenses. His combination of size, skill, and athleticism would give almost every team problems. He's already superior to Battier in terms of overall basketball skill.

Battier's a better defender, but he's incredibly one dimensional. He's not a good passer. Offensively he's a liability. People buy into the stereotype that Rudy Gay is a poor defender, but I bet almost none of those people have watched him play more than 2 or 3 games, and probably never if that game isn't against Houston. I have a hard time believing that a long 6-9 athlete like Gay wouldn't be at least adequate defensively.

This was a good defensive team before Battier. We've lacked a third scorer for a long long time. This time was in dire need of an athletic player who can create and make shots. We drafted that player and let him go.

The presence of Artest makes this easier to bare, but still.....

 

we only drafted that player for another team. had the rockets kept the pick, they wouldn't have drafted Gay and then you'd be arguing about something else.

You can complain about their scouting all you want, but Morey's seem to do okay otherwise in drafting players (especially in the only years when it's been clear he was 100% in charge).