Don't be so dramatic. You get asked for your ID when doing damn near anything in society and "no reason to be suspicious"? Really? You do realize I was talking about something that would happen during official police interactions right? Everyone should have to produce ID when stopped by the police, if you can't produce that ID they should take you in until your identification can be confirmed. That's not just an immigration thing, that's an overall crime thing. You need an ID to do damn near anything in society, but have a cop ask for it and all of a sudden it's oppression according to some. SMH.
To you, immigrants and minorities are the same. This is why you resort to generic responses that can be cut and pasted into any thread, because you hold an indefensible position. Immigrants and minorities are not the same.
I rarely get asked for my ID. I can't remember the last time I was asked for my ID that didn't involve being at a bank.
Well that anecdote completely changes the fact that ID is required to do a huge number of things in society, I'll have to re-think everything.
First, I forgot being at an airport, but aside from that, what are the huge number of things that involve "damn near anything in society"? I suspect most people on this board (at least those who look old enough to drink and/or get into an R rated movie are in the same situation as me. There are certainly times you need an ID, but for "damn near anything"? Not even close. As long as I do not interact with the police I could get by without my driver's license or passport the vast majority of the time. And, that's not just me. It's a whole lot of Americans.
In a perfect world, cops wouldn't profile but they do. They even cover it up in Texas. I know you're of the opinion that cops can do no wrong and as long as you listen to what they say you'll be okay. Clearly that is not the case if you're a minority. http://kxan.com/investigative-story/texas-troopers-ticketing-hispanics-motorists-as-white/ Racial Profiling Law It's my understanding a cop needs reasonable suspicion to ask for your identification. If you're someone just walking down a sidewalk and happen to walk past a cop, are you obligated to show him your identification if s/he asks for it? My first response would be to ask what infraction I committed in front of the cop. If s/he says I did nothing wrong but just wants to ask for identification, I should not be obligated to show it to them. Unless you're busted violating a law, there should be no reason a cop should have any reason to ask for identification. Otherwise it does just become profiling. In which case then the basis for asking for identification would more than likely be based on skin color instead of suspicious criminal behavior. So again, if I'm walking down a sidewalk and I'm not acting suspiciously but I get asked by a cop to show my identification, I will refuse as is my right. I know you'll probably chime in that I should just cooperate with the officer if I've got nothing to fear and justify a cop's actions by asking for ID for no reason. That cop and his/her chain of command can then expect me to contact the Chief of Police, District Attorney, City Council members, and Sherriff why they're wasting MY time and MY tax dollars for doing nothing wrong. And you bet I would spread that story over social media, because under no circumstances should an officer have any right to ask you for identification just because they feel like it.
LOL I love that you started out with a strawman argument intended to poison the well. Brilliant. Anyway, I get that you think someone asking you to show ID in the middle of a police stop, which requires a reason to stop a person, is some kind of oppression if that person happens to be a "minority" of some kind and I can't really do anything to help you out with that. All I can do is say that it's not, and you just have to take my word for it. In some ways I wish actual oppression still existed so that we wouldn't have people misunderstanding when it's actually happening and when people are just being overly dramatic. I mean, obviously it would be horrible for those who would then be legitimately experiencing it, but it would help these kinds of conversations out and if people were legitimately experiencing oppression, I doubt you'd consider asking for ID to be an example of that.
Here's another anecdote. I've been stopped by police and one pervert cop grabbed my butt and searched my friend's car when I failed to produce an ID. We were 17 and he had his ID. The officer then prevented us from leaving until he tested some plant burrs in the floor of the car. I showed up late for school that day and was suspended. And I was just some white kid. There are worse stories out there I've heard from my minority friends. People aren't being dramatic or attempting to obfuscate when they distrust LEO's benevolence of communities. It's a common problem. They're human and sometimes they have agendas. I'm well aware that criminals and illegal aliens have agendas as well. I'm just not willing to give away my rights in order to "police them more effectively." It simply wouldn't work in practice. But if you can't see why a mandatory ID law is extremely problematic, especially in this climate, perhaps your breadth of experience isn't broad enough.
Trump on deportations: 'It's a military operation' http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/23/politics/donald-trump-deportation-military/
Again it's an easy life for you if you've never had to deal with being pulled over for doing nothing wrong. Clearly the officers that do it know they're in the wrong or else they wouldn't cover it up. They'd provide accurate statistics of who they pull over more which is clearly minorities. Yet they don't provide accurate statistics because they know they're doing something unlawful and are trying to cover it up. In fact even state legislators see the issues that this brings and made a racial profiling law to combat it. This is in the good old GOP state of Texas too. I fail to see the strawman argument. But you continue being you and think you're right. Must be nice living in a small bubble.
I love it when people make ignorant baseless assumptions like this. It really helps further the conversation.
Then you understand how much it sucks when it's done to you when you've broken no law. Like RocketWalta said, being pulled over unnecessarily does affect people's lives. It makes them late to school, work, their airport flight, their immigration meeting to USCIS, one last visit to a dying family member in the hospital and I could go on. Once again, it's those officers that are being unlawful by pulling minorities over and then trying to cover it up. I do not see your outrage over that. Just you pretty much saying people need to get over it. Once again it's such a big problem in the state of Texas that GOP legislators had to enact a bill specifically because of it. These are not outlier instances.
Being inconvenienced is not oppression. If you are stopped for a lawful reason, you just need to get over it. I know people are delicate little snowflakes these days, but a traffic stop doesn't ruin your life.....even if the mean cops make you show ID and search your car. I've faced mistreatment by police in the past, it really pissed me off, but it certainly didn't ruin my life. It was an inconvenience and nothing more.....because I didn't turn it into anything more. If I had been an idiot, things could have REALLY gotten bad, but fortunately I'm not an idiot. I try to have sympathy for people who are idiots that make things go bad, but there's only so much sympathy to go around and I normally save it for people that don't cause their own problems.
I got a black friend that gets pulled over frequently by the cops in Illinois. He works an overnight job putting newspapers in the front yard of home owner subscribers. At least once every couple of weeks he's profiled because of his skin color. A black guy driving around in a beat up car in a neighborhood at 3 AM must be up to no good right? It happens to him even when it's the same officers that recognize him for pulling him over unnecessarily. They don't issue a ticket or anything. They just "inconvenience" him cuz' he's black. That sucks being presumed guilty with no evidence to back it up especially at that type of frequency. At that point I no longer think it's a matter of inconvenience. It's just deliberate bigotry. And they do it because they know they can get away with it. I guess it's just an "inconvenience" for him because he gets to drive back to his apartment every night safely, but I can only imagine how much it'd suck for me if I got pulled over every couple of weeks over something I can't even change about myself, in my skin color. Especially when all I'm trying to do is just my job. Anecdotal I know, but what those officers are doing is unlawful.
There's a lot of assumptions thrown in there, I'd point them out, but there's no point. I'm good with you having this world perspective, I just don't think it should influence anything that matters.
Well, this is pretty dumb. Another hastily drafted orders probably without inputs from the military. Trump order drops protection for families of deployed military Imagine you are a member of the United States military deployed on the front lines confronting ISIS or other terrorist threats. Suddenly you get a desperate phone call from home — Immigration and Customs Enforcement has arrested your family and they’re facing deportation. Think it can’t happen? Think again. Think Trump. The Trump administration’s draconian and hastily drafted immigration orders rescind a key protection for military families so that now even military spouses and children can be rounded up and deported. This will weaken our armed forces. It will harm thousands of military families. And it’s wrong. In 2013, the Department of Homeland Security, at the request of the Defense Department, issue a policy memorandum aimed at preventing the deportation of spouses, parents and children of active-duty service members through a program called “Parole in Place.” Put simply, the program allowed immigration authorities to give the immediate family of military service members a temporary reprieve from enforcement actions based on their immigration status. It specifically barred those with criminal convictions from these protections. This was as much about national security as it was about upholding our commitment to support our troops. The Department of Homeland Security wrote, at the time, that “military preparedness can potentially be adversely affected if active members of the U.S. armed forces … worry about the immigration status of their spouses, parents and children.” We need our service members focused on accomplishing their mission and the safety of each other. Yet the Trump administration’s new immigration enforcement policy eviscerated “Parole in Place” protections. It does not continue a policy that reflects a promise made to recruits who joined the United States military in the last four years. The Trump administration must immediately and explicitly clarify that the “Parole in Place” program for military families remains the law of the land. If Trump can turn out sweeping executive orders in a matter of days, surely he can fix this terrible mistake in a matter of minutes. Fletcher is a U.S. Marines combat veteran, a professor of practice in political science at UC San Diego and a former member of the California Assembly representing the 75th District. Twitter: @nathanfletcher
The conservatives on this thread are just stupid, uneducated people. Engaging with them is like engaging the mentally ill. Their views are not going to change and they will twist whatever they have to make things the way they want to see them. These are the people who support Trump after all.
