Sorry dude ... I respect the conviction, but you just keep going further and further out on that limb To this point, "health issues and if they get "stuck" at some point in their careers on non-contending teams" only applies to 1 of these 4 players ... Right now, his Similarity Scores on PBRef include: - John Paxson - Brian Shaw - Bimbo Coles - Matt Maloney Anyone grouped in with that cluster of farts should NEVER be compared favorably to a group including the NBA's best player at 3 diff positions: - PG Curry - SG Harden - PF Griffin* (*really 2nd-best behind ADavis, but still Top-10 overall superstar, and you get the point) 2014/15 (Career) RUBIO MVP finish - did not receive even a single 5th-place vote PER - 15.2 (15.4) WS - 0.5 (11.4) ORtg - 98 (101) DRtg - 110 (104) CURRY MVP finish - 1st PER - 28.0 (21.7) WS - 15.7 (53.7) ORtg - 122 (115) DRtg - 101 (107) HARDEN MVP finish - 2nd PER - 26.7 (21.5) WS - 16.4 (63.0) ORtg - 118 (118) DRtg - 103 (106) GRIFFIN MVP finish - 9th PER - 22.8 (22.8) WS - 9.0 (50.9) ORtg - 113 (113) DRtg - 106 (104) Simply put, Curry & Harden contributed more Win Shares to their teams last season than Rubio has contributed to his team in his entire 6-yr NBA career While his DEF and playmaking may be the best of the 4, his horrendous shooting and health issues are a MAJOR drag on Rubio's overall value to his team To 'challenge' those 3 players in terms of total career, with the 6-season headstart of below-average play Ricky has already spotted them, he is gonna have to play PG at prime-Oscar-Robertson level for the next decade That means anything less than averaging a triple-double for the remainder of his career will make your Rubio hypothesis impossible ... and I didn't even bring up team success since everyone else has it well-covered
My bad ... forgot he didn't come over from Spain right away ... Make that his entire 4-year NBA career During which he has played in only 202 of a possible 328 games (61.5% - similar to Yao's career rate of missed games) ... Just sayin
Compelling Story! However in order to fully digest the explanation, ALL parties involved need to be brought to light! If you're going to tell us that this how it all went down, then you should have no problem divulging the identity of the poster who (allegedly) scammed you! FWIW, I enjoy (100%) of you posts have of the time!...:grin: ....... ....... .......
Yes, well 3 of them anyway. Ty Lawson, btw, was in that draft class also and looks like the better point guard. By his 3rd season, Ty was the best player on the Nuggets and they went to playoffs that year. But I wouldn't try to put his name in the same sentence as guys like Griffin, Harden, and Curry.
Never mind bbhollic I found the thread! You really went asinine there for awhile! I guess you know your new username gave you away, but maybe that's what you wanted all along. I wish I could say that I agree with your version of the events.... but I guess everyone sees/remembers what they want to see/remember. Regardless, just like a Phoenix, you have risen from the ashes! (P.S.) NOW I know why you make such bold predictions about acquiring players!... ....... ....... .......
So bballholic is a conservative? Makes sense why he choses to believe what he wants regardless of how many facts/numbers we use to support the contrary
Please for the love of God tell me I did not just read basketballholic say that Rubio will be up there with Harden/Curry/Griffin....
Slow day at the office so this was a good read. Oh man. I don't even know what to say but it's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion.
Seems like a lot of drama for a friendly bball website. I will say I agree with some of your suggestions - 1) I also have thought rep should only be given in bball-related forums. 2) Changing that post was pretty messed up if that really happened. That said, I think it would be better if you kept the original username. There's something about switching usernames that just seems to bring one's integrity into question. I also question the intentions of your bumping this thread. It seems like you bumped it just to brag. That's actually OK with me, if you are transparent about it.
If I wanted to brag I'd bump a whole bunch of threads. All you've got to do is search curry and jopatmc to see I consistently pumped him and even suggested we trade Brooks and multiple first rounders to get up high enough to draft him. I bumped this thread to discuss Blake, James, Steph, and Ricky. Those 4 players are going to battle on throughout their career for "best player of the draft" status. I know almost nobody agrees with me on Rubio right now. And many don't agree on Blake either. Personally, I think Blake is the worst player of the 4. And I really think that Rubio will come on and become a threat to the first 2 for "player of the draft". Neither Curry nor Harden would have won a thing on any of those T-Wolves teams Rubio has been ladled with. My point is even though we're 6 years in, these guys are still close and the best player won't likely be determined for many years...unless someone falls out because of career-ending injuries or because they are stuck on a bad team. Rubio has been stuck on bad teams every season of his career. And he's only 4 years into his career as opposed to 6 for the other guys. But...Rubio won't likely stay in that position. He will likely be traded to a team that is ready to win or he'll sign away whenever his contract is up or Minny will develop into a contending team over the next couple seasons. One of those 3 is going to happen if Rubio maintains his health recovery. Because he's a great player. While it is your opinion that I should've kept my original username (and I was invited to by both the bet winner and by Clutch) I felt it best to move on. I wanted a more basketball centric username anyways. And this one fits me better. Also I've never covered up once that jopatmc was my original username.
Success in my opinion is ultimately defined by rings. You can throw out triple-doubles for a career, and even win shares as your critera. There is some correlation between win shares and rings obviously. But not necessarily triple-doubles, shooting percentages, or points scored. Rubio is a dominant player in a different kind of way. He's hall-of-fame material in a similar fashion to what made Dennis Rodman hall-of-fame material. Rodman was a dominant versatile defender and rebounder. Rubio is a dominant and versatile defender and passer/playmaker. This will continue to come to light over the years. And when Rubio gets surrounded by a playoff caliber roster...he will shine. And the metrics will then support him as a great player. Metrics and statistics don't make the player. The player himself and his teammates make great (or poor) metrics and statistics. So, everything starts with watching the players play individually, examining their skill sets, watching with your eyes what happens on the floor when they are playing. And then you look at metrics to confirm what your eyes are seeing and for explanations that show why a great player with a great skill set may not be winning games. Rubio will be up there with the other 3 when his career is over unless injury prematurely ends his career.
LOL my god. His team has nothing to do with it .It's the player who can't shoot OR finish. Maybe if he lived 30 years ago he would be the best player. The rules of defence were different and there was no such an emphasis on shooting. BUT right now what you saying is ridiculous. A player who can't shoot or finish well can't even compare to those guys.(including Blake who was MAGNIFICENT this year). I can't imagine the conversations between bballholic and that Vspan troll who hates Rubio. Must have been top comedy.
It's defined by rings? So chalmers is better player than Curry? The comparison with Rodman is at best over the top. Wake me up when Rubio is even the best defensive guard. (gotta wait for at least Allen to retire, and then there's Payton and Smart).
this guy's man crush on Rubio is hilarious. I didn't think it could get any worse but it continues. It's at the point where he's delirious. but atleast his track record of scouting reports is consistent...consistently bad
Rubio can shoot and he can finish. But even if you want to maintain that he can't shoot or finish he's still super effective. Over his first 4 years, his teammates have shot a poorer percentage on open 3's than any other teams in the NBA. Rubio creates all those looks for them. He can't make them knock down those shots when they are standing there wide open with a full 2 seconds to get the shot off without any defenders around them. That's the GM's job, to get the scorers around him. And up until now his GM has failed him. That's not on Ricky. A player's teammates and his coaches have A LOT to do with his success. You can scan down the list of the 50 greatest NBA players and see case after case of players who lost OFTEN early in their careers before they were surrounded with the health, good teammates, and good coaching. Start with Michael Jordan and go from there. As far as VSpan goes, I advocated early and often for him to be playing over Rafer. I still feel like JVG totally mis-coached him and although I thought JVG was a good coach I still believe he was too narrow-minded to let VSpan into the rotation and learn on the job. VSpan has proven his talent and ability in Europe, and has won over and over. If VSpan had stayed in the NBA, he would've become a top 15 PG in the league.
